Master list of 3800 decisions and options (Page 1/3)
Boostdreamer MAY 15, 02:36 PM
This thread will list the different decisions and options a 3800 engine swapper will need to consider when planning their swap. This is not a how-to thread but hopefully it will be a good source of links to them. I'd like this thread to become the go-to thread for the first timer and the repeat swapper, alike. With your help, it will be.

Please list and describe any decisions you had to make concerning your 3800 engine swap. Tell us the options you were aware of and why you chose the way you did. Please include any information about cost, availability, aftermarket solutions, and did you farm out any part of it such as machine work?

If you have a good build thread or know of one that details a specific decision/option, please post a link. I will keep and update the second post as an index to the information that is posted here. My vision is to create an outline for any builder to follow from their very first thought, to first start-up, and on to tuning and performance mods. People have to start somewhere, this looks like a good place to begin!

Thanks in advance for your participation!
Boostdreamer MAY 15, 02:37 PM
This list is a work in progress and it will only be as good as the participation it receives so be sure to add your wisdom here!

So you want to put in a 3800? You have come to the right place. Listed here are the things you will need to figure out before the horsepower hits the road. Some of these decisions will be very well documented. I will create separate posts in this thread for those decisions to collect those notes and links together. I will then put a note by that question stating on which page that post is.


I hope this thread will benefit many members in their journey to build their dreams. I hope those people will learn from the knowledge posted here and then come back and add any missing details.


1. Should I do an engine swap?
2. Should I put in a 3800 or something else?
3. Supercharged or normally aspirated?
4. Series I, II, or III?
5. Should I move the battery?
6. Where will I mount the coil pack?
7. What donor cars have 3800? Are they all the same?
8. What do I need to know about the alternator? (hi or lo mount, Fiero or 3800, belt routing)
9. Do I need to use a dog bone mount?
10. Should I remove the smog equipment?
11. How do I connect the fuel lines?
12. What fuel pump should I use?
13. Do I need to modify the thermostat housing?
14. Where will the wiring harness come from?
15. What computer do I use?
16. Do I need a custom PROM chip?
17. What transaxle will I use?
18. Do I need custom axles?
19. Do I need custom engine and trans mounts?

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-16-2014).]

Boostdreamer MAY 15, 03:02 PM
If you're wondering why I'm doing this, it is simply because I NEED IT...so I know that others will need it also. I have my own 3800 SC swap to do and this is how I'm going to do my research and document it and make it available for everyone in the future.

I have a 2002 Series II 3800 SC with its original HD automatic transmission that I want to put into my 86 GT. This is not my first engine swap but it is my first non-original equipment engine swap. I'm in a unique position to create this thread because NOTHING is going to be "understood" as being the obvious thing to do. Everything I will be experiencing will be new so I won't miss the details that sometimes get forgotten in the big picture.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-15-2014).]

Boostdreamer MAY 15, 03:39 PM
Question 1. Should I do an engine swap?

YES!!! Next question!

Well, that is the answer for me but maybe not for everyone. I already made that decision by buying another engine. I wanted a few things out of my swap.

I want more power.
I want more fuel economy.
I want an awesome looking engine bay!
I want reliable performance.
I want to re-create, as closely as possible in a car, the acceleration sensation that I have experienced with my motorcycles.
I want to be able to say, "I put that in there!"

Your mileage may vary. You may not want those things. Maybe you just need to bump up the power of your existing engine. If you have a 2.5 Iron Duke, the easiest upgrade swap you can do is to put in a 2.8 V6. That was my first engine swap. I had both cars and it wasn't too difficult. I've seen people asking about re-building both of the original Fiero engines but I don't think I've ever seen that recommendation given. Usually when someone wants to rebuild their Fiero engine, it is a matter of just wanting to do the rebuild for the experience. Maybe a few were thinking about originality. As far as upgrades and bolt-on performance:

A 2.8V6 can be bored out to 3.2 according to this thread: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...010706-2-007202.html

Another ECM might give you the bump you're looking for: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum3/HTML/000088.html

It seems that when the situation calls for a rebuild, the general consensus is to do a complete swap to a more powerful engine.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-15-2014).]

Bump MAY 15, 04:37 PM
I am near the point of pulling my stock 2.8L out for a clutch replacement and am at the cross roads of reinstalling the 2.8 or upgrading to the 3.8 (either s/c or not). My biggest factor is the estimated $3000 cost of this upgrade.... in a $3000 (if that) car. (similar to putting $2000 rims on a $2000 civic?)
AND, in the end, this $3000 car+$3000 motor upgrade does not yield you a $6000 vehicle; unfortunately.

Will be tuning in to your decision matrix thread; just playing devils advocate there.

[This message has been edited by Bump (edited 05-15-2014).]

Boostdreamer MAY 15, 04:45 PM
Question 2. Should I put in a 3800 or something else?

This is one of those questions that has been beaten to death. The thing that stands out to me is that powerplant options almost always get presented like question 2. It is always the 3800 being compared to something else. Why do you suppose that is? Well, the 3800 is quickly becoming the yard stick by which all other engine swaps are measured by. The 3800 is becoming the standard. More and more people are putting these engines into their Fieros. Who knows if any two have been done exactly the same way. The more they are used, the more is tried and learned. That leads to more options and those options can open up new possibilities which will create even more options. It can become overwhelming and confusing very quickly.

What is so great about these engines? Reliability, performance potential, economy, and aftermarket support to name a few desirable qualities. Add cost to that list which is always a concern for the shade tree mechanic. Another plus is the documentation that can be found about these engines, not only in Fieros but what people are doing with them in their cars of origin. It is easy to see why someone would want to upgrade to a 3800. They do have a lot going for them.

I guess the best way to describe the benefits of using the 3800 is "bang for your buck". Everyone understands that. For the money invested, it is hard to beat a 3800.

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 05-15-2014).]

nosrac MAY 15, 04:45 PM

quote
Originally posted by Bump:

I am near the point of pulling my stock 2.8L out for a clutch replacement and am at the cross roads of reinstalling the 2.8 or upgrading to the 3.8 (either s/c or not). My biggest factor is the estimated $3000 cost of this upgrade.... in a $3000 (if that) car. (similar to putting $2000 rims on a $2000 civic?)
AND, in the end, this $3000 car+$3000 motor upgrade does not yield you a $6000 vehicle; unfortunately.
[color=#000000][/color]
Will be tuning in to your decision matrix thread; just playing devils advocate there.
[/size]



It's NOT an investment it's a hobby and the smile the 3800 SC puts on your face = Priceless...

When you hammer the throttle its like ....


Get the sensation....LOL

[This message has been edited by nosrac (edited 05-16-2014).]

Boostdreamer MAY 15, 04:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by Bump:

I am near the point of pulling my stock 2.8L out for a clutch replacement and am at the cross roads of reinstalling the 2.8 or upgrading to the 3.8 (either s/c or not). My biggest factor is the estimated $3000 cost of this upgrade.... in a $3000 (if that) car. (similar to putting $2000 rims on a $2000 civic?)
AND, in the end, this $3000 car+$3000 motor upgrade does not yield you a $6000 vehicle; unfortunately.

Will be tuning in to your decision matrix thread; just playing devils advocate there.




I hear ya! Cost is a big deal. Nobody wants to throw away money. It would be nice to be able to add up our receipts to find the value of our cars. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. From what I've read, I think you have a reasonable budget. A lot of it comes down to what you can do and what you will have to pay for. If you are handy with the tools, you should be fine provided you find your 3800 at a good price. I paid $800 for my engine and trans with all the extras that I wanted. I had to pull the engine out myself. I think I got a decent deal but I didn't steal it. I did get to drive the car, and I know that the engine was running well when I removed it. That made a big difference to me versus buying an engine from a salvage yard that you know nothing about.
Bump MAY 15, 04:58 PM
Leading into question #3....

Do you have HP numbers from 2.5, 2.8, 3.8, and 3.8SC? Have been told that 3.8NA is worlds of difference over the 2.8. 3800NA is would be easier to come by. Is the S/C worth the extra $$? Would you be silly to to a 3800 swap and NOT go S/C?
Boostdreamer MAY 15, 05:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Bump:

Leading into question #3....

Do you have HP numbers from 2.5, 2.8, 3.8, and 3.8SC? Have been told that 3.8NA is worlds of difference over the 2.8. 3800NA is would be easier to come by. Is the S/C worth the extra $$? Would you be silly to to a 3800 swap and NOT go S/C?



I'll work on finding those HP numbers for you. I don't think you HAVE to go SC. I'd say there are plenty of guys out there who are thrilled with their NA swaps. First of all, it will be a big HP improvement. Second, it will be cheaper than the SC. Third, it will have less mechanical complexity. Fewer things to break! Fourth, lower weight. Fifth, you can add a supercharger or turbo to it later.

So definately a viable option and definately not silly to go NA. For me, I just wanted to say my engine was SUPERCHARGED and I think that it looks cool.