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| R152a - A/C alternative fill... (Page 1/6) |
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fierosound
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JUL 06, 10:17 AM
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fierosound
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JUL 06, 10:23 AM
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fierosound
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JUL 06, 11:17 AM
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More on R152a:
"A new Directive has recently completed its progress through the European legislative process.
It requires the elimination of R134a from all new models from 2011 and from all new vehicles by 2017.
The currently considered alternatives are R152a with a global warming potential less than 10% of that of R134a, or the so-called ‘natural’ refrigerant R744 (carbon dioxide).
R152a has thermodynamic characteristics very similar to those of R134a and will be directly usable with current compressor technology..."
Source: http://delphi.com/docs/defa...974-pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0
"Recent European environmental standards have called for a new Freon formulation known as R152A.
The good news with this new formulation is that it can be retrofitted into an R134A system without modifications
and it actually blows slightly colder air than its R134A predecessor. R152A is slightly less dense than R134A,
so it can theoretically contribute to better fuel economy as well. "
From Hemmings article:
Tech 101 – Refrigerant: what you can use, what you should use, what is no longer available
http://blog.hemmings.com/in...no-longer-available/[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-06-2017).]
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theogre
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JUL 06, 12:17 PM
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Canada's "DOT" may allow this but NHTSA Only Allows R12 and R134 in all older vehicles and many new one too.
R1234yf, AKA HFO-1234yf, is only for New Vehicles Made to use it. GM and some others are using this in new cars.
Some debate whether it's too flammable or will turn Acid and Toxic in a wreck or leaking out but GM and Others Does Not Care because they will get GWP/CAFE points for using this. These points mean Billions of $ each year tor the car manufacturers.
All others are Illegal in the U.S. for vehicle use and if you even ignore that, Many can be Dangerous because many are Flammable, Explosive or turn into very Acid and/or Toxic chemicals when leaked out and exposed to fire, water, etc.------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave
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sardonyx247
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JUL 06, 01:09 PM
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If it is that flammable, may as well use propane.
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fierosound
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JUL 06, 01:18 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
R1234yf, AKA HFO-1234yf, is only for New Vehicles Made to use it. GM |
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I figured you'd jump on board. The DOT lawyer among us... 
I never made any reference to these chemicals since we don't have those 'new vehicles'.
R152a is still however an EPA approved refrigerant for automotive air conditioning.
https://www.epa.gov/snap/ac...-duty-heavy-duty-and
"EPA has determined that R–152a (hydrofluorocarbon (HFC)-152a) is an acceptable refrigerant substitute
(will now be referred to as ‘‘refrigerant’’) with use conditions for MVAC systems, as a replacement for CFC–12
in new MVAC systems. This determination applies to MVAC systems in newly manufactured vehicles only. "
"The toxicity profile of R–152a is comparable to R–12 and its most prevalent substitute, R–134a."
Granted, EPA is saying use is for "new vehicles" but R152a is compatible with our old system components and works better that R134a according to GM tests previously posted.
People can stay with whatever is in their cars - even R12 if it's still working - if they want.
They can refill using Envirosafe (and the petroleum gases in it) if they want an 'environmentally friendly' alternative to the 'unsafe' R134a...
They can also determine if they want to use R152a after reading all the EPA rules and regulations on the industry (that apply TO the industry).
The entire EPA document on R152a is here for anyone to read:
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/p...-12/pdf/E8-13086.pdf[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-06-2017).]
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fierosound
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JUL 06, 01:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by sardonyx247:
If it is that flammable, may as well use propane. |
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It almost sounds as if that is what Envirosafe is using (Class 1 flammable...)
I'm pretty sure they don't recommend spraying this into the air like you can with Dust-Off...
 [This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 07-06-2016).]
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Lambo nut
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JUL 06, 03:51 PM
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My 2015 Ram has R1234yf in it.
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fierosound
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JUL 07, 12:55 AM
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I did some calculations...
My 84 Service Manual calls for 2.5lb (40 oz) of R12 refrigerant for a full charge.
When converting to R134a, you'd need 36 oz by weight of refrigerant to do the same.
I got a full charge with about 2-1/2 cans of Dust-Off = 30 oz (each can was 12 oz net weight on label)
"Full charge" was determined by monitoring of both the low pressure and high pressure gauges with
A/C system operational and filling to A/C performance specifications in the Factory Service Manual.
That was: 30 psi low side, 150 psi high side and 40F cold air coming out the vents
(at corresponding temp/humidity conditions listed in service chart)
R152a works will the same "retrofit" procedures you'd make when changing from R12 to R134a.
See here: http://www.e38.org/pparish/gm-rp.htm
If you're already converted to R134a - you may as well stay with it.
If it leaked out, and you've made repairs to reseal the empty system anyway
you are good to recharge with either R134a or R152a if you want to give that a try.[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 08-06-2017).]
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fierosound
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JUL 07, 05:39 PM
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