88 Formula Running Rich (Page 1/3)
Reborn756 SEP 07, 11:33 PM
Howdy folks! Finally picked up my 88 Formula Sunday. Been working on it the last two days and got it to fire. Car ran just fine for the first five minutes, but now I have two problems: there's a whine from the passenger side of the motor, and it's running rich all of a sudden.

The whine I suspect is the water pump (yay), I'll know more tomorrow when I check with my mechanic's stethoscope. The richness however, I don't know where to begin. Fuel pump, fuel pump relay, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, ICM, and ignition coil were all replaced. Suspecting maybe the IAC or something? It's also idling a bit high as well.

If anyone could give me some suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate it! I'm new to Fieros, so if you have a recommendation on something to check, I'd appreciate if you could point me to the location of the part/line/wiring

Thank you!

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- Darryl

Patrick SEP 08, 02:17 AM

quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

...it's running rich all of a sudden.



What are the symptoms?


quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

The whine I suspect is the water pump...



... or alternator.


quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

It's also idling a bit high as well.



Probably a vacuum leak. The usual cause on a Fiero's 2.8 is a cracked pipe that goes between the EGR valve and the underside of the intake manifold. Often masked/hidden by the insulated jacket.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-08-2020).]

Reborn756 SEP 08, 07:39 AM
Howdy Patrick, thanks for the response! There doesn't seem to be any symptoms, just a constant rich condition. Engine overall sounds good for 106K, no missing, revs out with no sputtering or hesitation. Just running rich enough that the fumes from the pipe almost burn your eyes. The first five minutes it was running, it was not burning rich.

Unfortunately the EGR Valve isn't hooked up, there was this pencil thin hard plastic line next to it, which I suspected was the vacuum for it. I have already plugged this particular line with no luck. Is this the correct line?

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- Darryl

Gall757 SEP 08, 10:54 AM

quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

Unfortunately the EGR Valve isn't hooked up,



This is likely the reason for the rich problem. Often a bad sensor will create a rich condition, such as the O2 sensor or the coolant temp sensor.
Reborn756 SEP 08, 11:09 AM
Thanks Gall! I do have a symptom now:

Went to move the car so I would work on it outside. Car fired right up, but when I stepped on the brake to put it into gear, it died. Now it won't fire at all. Cranks but doesn't even try to fire.

Coil, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, ICM, fuel pump, and fuel pump relay were all replaced.

Does this information help at all?

Also, is the thin hard plastic line that I have capped off the line for the EGR valve?

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- Darryl

Gall757 SEP 08, 11:26 AM

quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

Also, is the thin hard plastic line that I have capped off the line for the EGR valve?




yes, but it is not a factor in getting the car started. Look for a small movement in the tach while cranking the starter.....300 rpm or so. If it does not move, there is a primary ignition problem.
Reborn756 SEP 08, 12:24 PM
I don't see any movement in the tach, but the tach does peg at max when the car is running. Just tried the ICM with no luck, going to put the old coil back on and see if my new one randomly popped.

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- Darryl

Patrick SEP 08, 12:49 PM

quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

There doesn't seem to be any symptoms, just a constant rich condition. Engine overall sounds good for 106K, no missing, revs out with no sputtering or hesitation. Just running rich enough that the fumes from the pipe almost burn your eyes.



What's the history on this car? Was it sitting for a long time?

It's possible the injectors are sticking. A fuel pressure tester will tell you not only what the fuel pressure is while running, but will also show how quickly the pressure drops when the fuel pump stops. A quick pressure drop might indicate leaking injectors.


quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

Unfortunately the EGR Valve isn't hooked up, there was this pencil thin hard plastic line next to it, which I suspected was the vacuum for it. I have already plugged this particular line with no luck. Is this the correct line?



Why would you cap it off instead of connecting it to the EGR valve? The EGR pipe that often cracks and leaks is the one in your picture with the silver "jacket" on it.


quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

I don't see any movement in the tach, but the tach does peg at max when the car is running.



The tach pegs? Whether it does or not, disconnect the tach filter and see if this affects the engine starting.


quote
Originally posted by Reborn756:

Just tried the ICM with no luck



Tried what?

Sounds like you didn't replace the pickup coil in the distributor. Did you check it?
Reborn756 SEP 08, 01:16 PM
Figured out the no start answer. Turns out the power connector for the ICM was not plugged in properly, the connector end is butchered and either I didn't have it on all the way the first time, or it managed to wiggle loose while idling. Once I caught that I put the new ICM back on, this time making sure the connectors fully seated, and it fired right back up. Idle sounded normal again, but still running rich. Might just need time to burn out all the fuel it probably took and wasn't igniting completely.

So, I'm passed that hurdle.

Next is to diagnose the whining noise on the passenger side. Transmission wouldn't whine from that side would it? Fluid didn't look or smell good, bright orange instead of pink/red. The whining did start after putting it in forward and reverse and moving it 10 foot each way yesterday.

Still looking for my mechanic's stethoscope so I can isolate it, but figured I'd ask on that quick while I'm here.

Patrick: car has sat for quite a while, yes. I didn't hook up the EGR because it doesn't look like it's in good shape, suspected it may have just caused problems itself, but I can certainly try it. Also yes, the tach pegs when it's running, right up to max.

Thanks for the help so far folks!

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- Darryl

Reborn756 SEP 08, 02:48 PM
Made an interesting discovery. The whining does not seem to be coming from the alternator, water pump, or the pump to the lower right of the water pump (not sure what that one is, SMOG or AC pump? I hit all three with a little lube and then had a listen with my stethoscope, but none even sounded remotely close to be making the noise.

This whining comes after the car runs for a minute or two. Doesn't matter if I shut the car off and turn it right back on, it always comes at the same interval.

If you folks have a suggestion on this whining, I'd appreciate that. If it seems to be more of a stumper, I'll open a new thread just on this whining noise.

Thanks!

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- Darryl