PFF - Pennock's Fiero Forum, PDA Edition

Grand Am Rear Brake "Upgrade" (Page 1/3)

ArthurPeale

FEB 27, 06:39 PM

I needed to bleed the brakes, and promptly sheared off the bleed screw. Tried extractor (broke it), welding a nut to it (broke the weld) and I've finally thrown up my hands in frustration.

So...I'd like to swap with Grand Am parts.

In the reading that I've done, this SHOULD be a direct swap - calipers, rotors, pads - is that accurate?

If that is the case, does the attached shopping list from Rock Auto make sense? Are these the correct parts?

I need NON performance parts, correct?

I know that I lose the e-brake. Not really a concern, I plan on keeping the old calipers for inspections.

And, yes, the eventual plan is to do the fronts, too, but right now I need to make the car so that it can stop if I make it move.

https://www.rockauto.com/en...93dc1b4d5e44604b13a2

theogre

FEB 27, 09:54 PM

quote

Originally posted by ArthurPeale:
I needed to bleed the brakes, and promptly sheared off the bleed screw. Tried extractor (broke it), welding a nut to it (broke the weld) and I've finally thrown up my hands in frustration.

So...I'd like to swap with Grand Am parts.

In the reading that I've done, this SHOULD be a direct swap - calipers, rotors, pads - is that accurate?

If that is the case, does the attached shopping list from Rock Auto make sense? Are these the correct parts?

I need NON performance parts, correct?

I know that I lose the e-brake. Not really a concern, I plan on keeping the old calipers for inspections.

And, yes, the eventual plan is to do the fronts, too, but right now I need to make the car so that it can stop if I make it move.
<Link Deleted>

Keep reading. Hype from TFS and others pushing this crap "Upgrade" are dangerous.

Grand Am Brake "Upgrade" is NOT an "Upgrade" of any kind to drive on any street and Worse, doing as "Rear only" can Kill you when you spin out on the highway etc. Any larger pistons on rear axle will have same problem.

Is Illegal to remove P-Brake and when you crash w/ illegal brakes or other parts then often have much worse problems then failing inspection or getting tickets. If you survive, expect to need lawyers as others can, often will, sue you. Even if you die, your family etc can get sued too. When others find you have crap Illegal "upgrades" expect to lose the case. Car Insurance can void any policy for this and if they don't, your "state minimum" policy won't pay enough.

If Fiero rears are good then buy bleeder repair "kits" or other ways to fit them.
most rear have other problems and need replacing whole caliper.
See my Cave, Rear Brakes and rest of brake section.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

ArthurPeale

FEB 27, 10:59 PM

quote

Originally posted by theogre:Keep reading. Hype from TFS and others pushing this crap "Upgrade" are dangerous.

Do you have links for people who have had problems? That's one thing my searching didn't turn up.

theogre

FEB 28, 03:41 AM

quote

Originally posted by ArthurPeale:
Do you have links for people who have had problems? That's one thing my searching didn't turn up.

Didn't look very long or didn't read search results or just search w/ poor terms...
try google etc w/ site:www.fiero.nl after whatever terms. Can add date ranges and more there.

"Grand am brake up now terrible vibration" Started on: 02-01-2021 08:50 PM http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/144804.html is only a recent one.
And that's reading tech post tittles this month, not searching by PFF etc.

Many GA "upgrade" pages likely have this...
See my Cave, Brake Upgrade
w/ many highlights but doesn't list all problems.
Rear Only install is shown there. See "Can I use GA or Seville to upgrade the rear brakes only?"

Other "upgrades" w/ parts made for other cars often have problems because uses same cut down front "hub" etc but fewer use them so not covered by "name" in the cave page.

Dennis LaGrua

FEB 28, 05:16 AM

I will say that for a braking system to work properly, all components must be matched to work together. Whether the Grand Am brake swap is dangerous is debatable, but when one item changes in the system it most likely has an affect on the others. You see loads of brake swaps on Fieros. A common one is the Corvette upgrade. I would say that if ALL brake components are changed to Corvette items that would be an improvement but people are using aluminum brackets to mount them. Not sold on aluminum relocation brackets.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

olejoedad

MAR 01, 08:09 AM

Changing only the rear to the GA will adversely affect the brake balance.

It will not perform well.

Do all of them (and with the larger bore master cylinder) or fix the stock system.

Ogre also raises the legal aspects, which bear consideration.

Dennis LaGrua

MAR 01, 10:55 AM

quote

Originally posted by olejoedad:

Changing only the rear to the GA will adversely affect the brake balance.

It will not perform well.

Do all of them (and with the larger bore master cylinder) or fix the stock system.

Ogre also raises the legal aspects, which bear consideration.

With all the talk about brake upgrades going on, most don't realize that a properly functioning stock Fiero brake system provides plenty of brake action. IMO, complaints come from the fact that some have worn 30+ yr old systems that give decreased braking action. I even know a few owners still driving with 30 yer old brake fluid in the system.
If hoses, master, wheel cylinders and pads are replaced with high quality items, braking action will be good enough to lock up the wheels. Some owners never replaced braking components and are driving with 30 year old parts.. Flushing and bleeding the lines with new DOT fluid is recommended preventative maintenance. If not done then optimum results cannot be expected
I replaced my old MC with an AC/Delco unit and that alone made a big difference. Before that we added new hoses and rebuilt wheel cylinders. My only mod was the S-10 brake booster which just makes for easier pedal action. Car stops great.

dremu

MAR 01, 01:39 PM

quote

Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:
I even know a few owners still driving with 30 year old brake fluid in the system.

Given the hygroscopic nature of brake fluid, at that point I think it's a mixture of 50% brake fluid and 50% water

-- A

skywurz

MAR 01, 01:59 PM

Water is really the best hydraulic fluid... except for the corrosive aspects of it... But yeah on cars and bikes for some reason nobody ever flushes or changes the brake fluid. It turns black and sludgy and then clogs the tubes. Stock Fiero brakes with stock wheel sizes is more than enough. Unless you are doing track days or some sort of racing there is no real need to "upgrade". What i see here is most people want bigger wheels to fill out their wheel wells and then they want big rotors so that there is something to look at behind said wheel. I have never once heard of someone with properly functioning Fiero brakes say "oh i had too much fade when driving to the store" or "oh i could shave 5/10th off of my commute if only my brakes did not fade out through the parking lot"

[This message has been edited by skywurz (edited 03-01-2021).]

fieroguru

MAR 01, 07:11 PM

Remember the Fiero was designed when 55 mph was the national speed limit. Now it isn't uncommon to be passed while doing 80. Add heavy than stock stereo, interior, body kit, wheels/tires, and the elevated travel speeds and it is easy to find yourself in some scary situations.

You don't need a brake upgrade to cruise town, but exceptional brakes is one thing that once you have experienced, you are never happy with stock again.

Grand Am upgrade in the back only is a very bad idea.