ECM Swap ... I want a self-learning / self-tuning ECM... PLEASE! (Page 1/1)
82-T/A [At Work] DEC 27, 05:20 PM
Hey guys, some of you know me, but I haven't really been in here for almost a decade. I have a 1987 Fiero SE / V6 that's been in storage for about 11 years. I was 75% of the way through restoring it, and then put it in storage when I took a position that caused me to have to move around every 3 years. I'm finally in a place where taking the Fiero out of storage is an option, and I'd like to get it running again.

It's a 2.8 V6/60 that I've upgraded with the 3.1 crank and rods, and .040 overbore pistons. The cam is an H272 Crane Cam with 1.52:1 roller rockers and 17# Accel Injectors. Everything else on the engine has been rebuilt, etc. I also was in the process of converting it from a 3-Speed automatic GX9 / 3.33:1 to a 5-Speed Getrag (unknown gearing, but it came from another 87 Fiero).


Now... my problem. The Fiero has about 140k miles, and has been sitting for a decade. The car has mostly been restored... but the wiring is all original. I desperately want to be able to just turn the key, and have the Fiero turn on and go. I'm considering replacing the ECM with one of those self-tuning systems.


I was seriously considering the FAST-EFI 2.0 MPFI upgrade system... but got hung up a bit with the timing issue. I could never get a solid answer as to whether or not I could control the electronic distributor with this system. I had a two-page thread with a lot of advice here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/131288.html The big concern for me is... I cannot find a single webpage, anywhere on the internet, where someone says that they've installed this on a V6.

I know a lot of things have changed, and I'm hoping there are other options?

A lot of people have had good luck with the MegaSquirt... and I respect that, but I absolutely do not want to have to go through all the hassle of building a new harness and reprogramming an ECM. I want something that'll just tune itself.


Would really appreciate some advice, I'm willing to throw a **** ton of money at it... just don't care. I just don't have the time and effort. I don't want an engine swap, I just want my V6/60 to look stock and run as smoothly and efficiently as possible.


Thanks guys, I appreciate any advice!


EDIT to say, the engine has maybe 5,000 miles on the engine since the rebuild, and I wiped out a lobe on the old cam, so I technically need to install the H272 cam (it's sitting in a box). Also, the transmission only has 30k miles on it, and I will be putting in a new clutch, etc. So when I say the car has 140k miles, I was referring really to the wiring, etc. Because the suspension, brakes, fuel system, everything has been replaced or completely rebuilt.


Thanks!

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-27-2021).]

StreetRod4 DEC 27, 08:48 PM
Check out Dynamic Efi. It should suit your needs

https://www.dynamicefi.com/
pmbrunelle DEC 27, 11:10 PM
That two-page thread kind of sums up that there is no easy button... and I still don't see autotuning being a thing besides a bunch of marketing wank.

That's not to say that you can't throw money at this problem to solve it; I propose a different approach.

I suggest you find a nearby tuning professional, and ask him what kind of ECU he would prefer to make a modified Fiero V6 run. It could be the stock Fiero computer. To be discussed with the tuner.

Then, install (or pay a shop to do it) the chosen ECU.

Then, have the tuner tune the ECU until the car runs correctly. The tuner should have a say in the ECU choice, because he will have to deal with that choice.

Somebody has to twiddle around with different settings to make the engine run right. I do not think that the job of a tuner has been automated away.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 12-27-2021).]

Raydar DEC 30, 05:03 PM
First... Be aware that the 272 requires machine work to the heads for spring clearance, unless you can find some springs that will accommodate .454/.480 (I/E) valve lift, and will still fit within the stock "installed height". The largest "similar" cam that doesn't require this machine work is likely the 260, which still isn't horrible.
I installed the 272, and used GM lifters. Crane, and other, lifters seemed to be causing issues. I had zero issues with mine. (A subsequent owner broke a rocker stud, a couple of years after I sold it, but that's kinda the breaks.)

With all of that said... you really don't need to change the ECM. Mine also had 19# injectors, ported heads, a Trueleo intake, and FOCOA headers, and still ran acceptably on a stock tune. Even well enough to pass Atlanta emissions. Your 17# injectors should be even better.
(Of course, I did make some tweaks to the tune, but nothing major. I ended up selling the car before I really jumped in with both feet.)
You will likely want to change the chip to a manual trans version. There are some minor differences between the auto and manual, but it will run on either one.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask. Either here or in PM. I won't BS you. If I don't know something, I'll say so.

This was mine. It was ugly, but it was nearly as quick as my 4.9.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-30-2021).]

82-T/A [At Work] JAN 02, 04:53 PM
Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

SR4, I was checking it out, I sent them an e-mail... looking to see what I'd need to do other than just plug and play.

PMB, sigh... I know... I just don't want a bunch of dudes wrenching on my car. Last time I took my Fiero anywhere, it was in the late 90s, and they used floor jacks on the cooling tubes. It took me years to find good replacements at the junkyard to fix it. Since then, I've done literally everything myself on every car I've owned since then. So the idea of taking my car to someone is just not something I want to do.

quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

First... Be aware that the 272 requires machine work to the heads for spring clearance, unless you can find some springs that will accommodate .454/.480 (I/E) valve lift, and will still fit within the stock "installed height". The largest "similar" cam that doesn't require this machine work is likely the 260, which still isn't horrible.
I installed the 272, and used GM lifters. Crane, and other, lifters seemed to be causing issues. I had zero issues with mine. (A subsequent owner broke a rocker stud, a couple of years after I sold it, but that's kinda the breaks.)

With all of that said... you really don't need to change the ECM. Mine also had 19# injectors, ported heads, a Trueleo intake, and FOCOA headers, and still ran acceptably on a stock tune. Even well enough to pass Atlanta emissions. Your 17# injectors should be even better.
(Of course, I did make some tweaks to the tune, but nothing major. I ended up selling the car before I really jumped in with both feet.)
You will likely want to change the chip to a manual trans version. There are some minor differences between the auto and manual, but it will run on either one.

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask. Either here or in PM. I won't BS you. If I don't know something, I'll say so.

This was mine. It was ugly, but it was nearly as quick as my 4.9.






I hadn't heard this about the H272, what kind of work needs to be done?

I have a bunch of ECMs, and one chip that in fact I actually paid someone in the early 2000s to flash for me based on those specs. But they're all jumped together, and I have no idea which ECMs are for an 87, an 85, or which chips are for what, manual or otherwise. Is there a decoder somewhere that I can just check the ECM number and see what it's for... and how about for the chips?


Thanks!!!