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| Exploded Valve Lifter: What kind of top end engine damage can I expect and check for? (Page 1/4) |
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reinhart
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FEB 05, 12:44 AM
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I decided to make a new thread that deals with a known problem where a previous thread was trying to diagnose and figure out the problem, and was not what I expected.
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88 GT Auto 118Kmi
Latest engine update:
I was getting a very loud clanging engine noise which I traced to Cylinder 6 which improved when I disconnected that spark plug wire. I had mistakenly thought it was a low end issue.
Previously about six months ago, I had a stuck valve lifter that went away with some Marvel Mystery oil. It came back in spectacular fashion apparently, however...
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Latest discovery:
So it looks like a valve lifter decided to end its existence on this earth. I had thought there was a low end problem so I dropped the pan and found what must be three pieces of the retaining clip, a flat round 1 centimeter diameter disc which I think is the oil check valve, another smaller circular half disc, and an assortment of other goodies lying in the oil pan.
I thought I was in deep doodoo but when I pulled the rod caps, there is no damage to the crank journals and most of the rod bearings are in amazing condition. Cylinder 6, which is closest to the oil pump had a groove in the bearing from what I can only assume was a metal fragment that slipped through the oil pump, however, the journal was nice and shiny with no scoring. There is a small nick in each of the two oil pump gears which shouldn't make a difference in operation, but tells me that some metal got through unless it was like that from the factory.
I'm replacing all the rod and main bearings while I'm down there. I still need to check the main bearings but the only one that could be a concern is the first one by the oil pump seeing as how nothing seems to have gotten past the first cylinder in oil flow.
Advice request:
Now for the problem: Seeing as how the bottom end of the engine appears to be fine and a valve lifter likely exploded, what kind of top end damage should I expect. Obviously I will need a new valve lifter and a gasket set, but other than that, what else do I definitely need to replace when I tear into the top end?
My understanding would be if the lifter stuck and then failed, then the valve would remain closed, so the valves should be fine (not have hit the cylinder head). I'm thinking the push rod (the metal rod that goes from the lifter to the rocker arm might have taken a pounding from bouncing around? Would the rocker arm be damaged?
What else should I order this weekend to have in hand when I open it up, and what else check for while I'm in there?
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For anyone that's interested, old diagnostic thread:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/145837.html[This message has been edited by reinhart (edited 02-05-2022).]
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Dennis LaGrua
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FEB 05, 02:42 AM
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What do you mean by exploded? Valve lifters can collapse internally but I never came across one that blew apart. If it did the oil pump screen and the oil filter may pick up most of the metal particles that you describe. As for engine damage, if the lifer bores measure up you might be OK with a cleaning but I would also check the cylinder bores for scoring.
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reinhart
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FEB 05, 09:05 AM
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How would the engine cylinders be damaged? The lifters are over the camshaft and aren't anywhere near the combustion chamber.
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slicknick
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FEB 05, 10:21 AM
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This is kind of fascinating. Lifters should keep themselves together through the valve spring and the cam, so it's kind of weird how one could fail catastrophically unless it broke at the bottom?
Else something contributed to it like a bent pushrod or something else up in the valvetrain.
Last time I had a 2.8 apart I had a lifter with a missing clip that popped apart when I took a pushrod out, but it was working otherwise.[This message has been edited by slicknick (edited 02-05-2022).]
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reinhart
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FEB 05, 04:21 PM
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My guess is since the lifter had collapsed, it was being hammered between the rocker and the camshaft.
Can someone that has torn into the middle intake confirm that this gasket set includes everything I'll need:
https://www.rockauto.com/en...08&pt=5424&jsn=19268
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tnkgnr
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FEB 05, 04:34 PM
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Those and maybe a thermostat housing gasket. There might be a way to take it apart without taking off the thermostat housing, but I couldn't really figure it out.
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theogre
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FEB 05, 07:56 PM
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Metal in the pan has to get pickup by oil then get thru Pickup screen, oil pump and oil filter before gets to anything else.
Unless maybe the bypass is open for plugged filter, cold heavy oil or has failed.
So crap you see above is unlikely cause of damage to a rod journal.
unless V6 has Very large drains from the valley, very little falls thru from cam area.
If that is from a lifter... Don't bother ordering parts until you see actual damage.
Because a lifter that "Exploded" likely has a Dead Cam at minimum. May have damage the block too at lest at lifter holes.
Replacing a Cam means "pulling" the Engine for most transverse engine cars.
Lifters can't wreck a cylinder w/o something making a big hole in the block.
If the engine has a "spun rod bearing" then piston can hit the head and wreck the piston and more. Only Pulling the pan to fix the bearing is not enough.------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave
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Notorio
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FEB 05, 10:52 PM
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You don't want to use those cheap valve cover gaskets. Get the Fel-Pro rubberized ones for $12 ( VS50077R {#10034707} ).
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reinhart
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FEB 06, 05:27 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
Metal in the pan has to get pickup by oil then get thru Pickup screen, oil pump and oil filter before gets to anything else.
Unless maybe the bypass is open for plugged filter, cold heavy oil or has failed.
So crap you see above is unlikely cause of damage to a rod journal.
unless V6 has Very large drains from the valley, very little falls thru from cam area.
If that is from a lifter... Don't bother ordering parts until you see actual damage.
Because a lifter that "Exploded" likely has a Dead Cam at minimum. May have damage the block too at lest at lifter holes.
Replacing a Cam means "pulling" the Engine for most transverse engine cars.
Lifters can't wreck a cylinder w/o something making a big hole in the block.
If the engine has a "spun rod bearing" then piston can hit the head and wreck the piston and more. Only Pulling the pan to fix the bearing is not enough.
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Ogre thanks for the reply. I already checked the rod bearings and there were no spun bearings. As described above they were all in amazing shape as was the crank. The only exception was the one rod bearing described above which had a groove down the middle which hadn't harmed the crank. Also there was a small notch in both gears of the oil pump which tells me something small snuck through the screen and pump which IMO is what grooved that line in the one rod bearing.
What's your suggestion then as to what these parts are if they're not a lifter than made its way down to the oil pan? I found another thread a while back about someone that found the metal spring retainers for the valve springs in his oil pan.
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reinhart
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FEB 06, 05:47 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Notorio:
You don't want to use those cheap valve cover gaskets. Get the Fel-Pro rubberized ones for $12 ( VS50077R {#10034707} ). |
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Thanks. I'll add them to the other set which was also Fel-Pro but apparently they make two styles for the valve cover gaskets.
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