QUESTION FOR THE ELECTRICAL GURUS ON THE BOARD (Page 1/2)
Sage MAY 31, 07:12 PM
86' GT (2.8 auto)

No crank....just a soft not quite "click" when the key is turned to start position.

Car is garage kept. Not driven regularly, but up until this no crank situation developed, was started at least every couple weeks and let reach operating temp.

As some of you know, I am, and have been for going on 3 years now, somewhat "consumed" with my wife's health situation.....so I've not been able to do much (any) fiberglass production to speak of, and definitely didn't have (take) time to try to figure out why this car just sudden like stopped cranking and/or starting.

As I said, it was fine till one day it wasn't. Hadn't been out of the garage....nothing done to it other than starting it fairly regularly...and now nothing.

The fuel pump runs for the appropriate amount of time when the key is turned, and there is a faint "not quite a click" heard seemingly coming from the firewall as far as I can tell, from outside the door, reaching in to turn the key. I wouldn't describe the "click" as like the sound you hear from a bad solenoid.....that from my experience is a definite unmistakable click with no crank. This is not that.

New battery, clean cables, terminals and removed and cleaned the ground to the block...no change.

Checked all fuses...nothing bad there. Pulled the relays on the firewall, they both look clean with good connections...but didn't individually test each one on a bench...didn't "disassemble" to check out the innards....so can't say for certain about them, but isn't at least one of them tied to the fuel pump and if it was bad, the pump wouldn't run like it does....asking....not stating.

Did jack up rear end and crawl under to check out the start connections, which because of limited space and my physical limitations, I didn't get done the way I'd like to. But as near as I could tell, everything seemed connected and tight, but that could still be an issue I guess, having not laid up close eyeballs on everything.

I'm wondering about the neutral safety switch, and the fusible links, but not really familiar with either or how to test. Not even sure where the NSS IS, and I have done several searches.

Did searches here, and on google and on youtube....nothing of much help...most times the suggestion is a bad battery or connection, and I'm not ruling either one out, but the battery is new and the connections to and from it seem ok to me....but I'm still an "old Chevy guy"...and that's where most of my mechanical electrical experience is from....(I'm talking 60's-70's old....NOT 2000-2016!) As far as I know...a battery is still a battery...and connections still need to be clean and tight...I don't believe that has changed significantly in the last 50 years....but I'm always open to learning new stuff! Maybe I'm not searching "correctly"?

So I'm turning to the experts here hoping someone can point me in the right direction, as I need to get this car operating, at least back to where it was before this situation started.

That's the hardest part for me to understand....one day it was fine...and the next it wouldn't crank and it hadn't moved!

I do keep a battery tender on it most of the time, if that makes any difference.

Any help will be appreciated.

TIA & HAGO!
fieroguru MAY 31, 07:49 PM
The Auto park/neutral switch is on the shift lever on the automatic transmission. You can unplug the harness from it and jumper the large yellow and purple wires to bypass the switch to see if it will start again (just make sure the transmission is still in park).


It could also be in the column with the ignition switch where the key motion isn't enough to push down the starter switch contacts (ignition power and starter power are separate contacts, you make the ignition power connection first).

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 05-31-2022).]

Dennis LaGrua MAY 31, 08:22 PM
I just fixed a problem like this. The neutral safety switch and a loose cable were the culprit and this was after replacing the starter.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Sage MAY 31, 08:59 PM
Thanks Paul....I went out and located the switch...it looks pretty "crusty"....getting dark here and have evening "chores" to do, so will crawl under there, or reach over to there tomorrow and pull the plug, jump the wires and see what's what.

It'd be great if that's the problem...but I learned a long time ago.....not to hold my breath on this kind of stuff...it's trial and error, no matter how "methodical" one's approach.

If it's the contacts in the column....not looking forward to pulling that apart...done that a few times...not one of my "favorite" things to do....but I do have a steering wheel puller from past projects!LOL

Thanks Dennis....hopefully, my situation will be equally as easy to remedy....got my fingers crossed!

Thank you both for chiming in...greatly appreciated.

HAGO!

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 05-31-2022).]

theogre MAY 31, 09:20 PM
Try starting w/ car in N not P.
"wiggle" the shifter if that doesn't start first time as shifter cable etc may be a bit off.

Just loose or need replace the unit then See my Cave, Neutral Safety Switch

⚠️ Running engine "till warm" etc is often not very good... Often Engine Oil can take an hour to drive out moisture and gas leftovers. AT Oil can taking a lot longer to never "dry out" when engine runs while parked.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Sage JUN 01, 06:37 AM
Thanks Dave, I will make a point of driving it a little bit periodically AFTER I get it started/running again!

I have done what you suggest here several times. Also tried rocking the car back and forth with it in park...also tried tapping on the starter...wriggle the wires.....you know all the "shadetree mechanic fixes" that were rumored to solve a problem when I was a teenager. In reality, a couple of them have actually worked more than a few times over the years.

Will try the alignment procedure if bypassing the switch lets the engine crank...if not....will still be trying to track down what "changed" overnight that made it go from go to nogo.

Thanks all, this board is still the best car forum on the net....period...always has been....always will be.

HAGO!

Dennis LaGrua JUN 01, 08:47 AM
Note: If you decide to change the neutral/range switch just remember that it must be indexed to work properly. On the top of the unit there is a slot around the switch rotor. You put the shifter in neutral and with a 3/32" drill in this slot, you turn the switch so that the drill fits in the notch in the switch rotor. Then you secure the switch in place.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Sage JUN 01, 09:02 AM
Thanks Dennis.

Checked out Ogres cave and the procedure is covered there...thank you for the headsup!


HAGO!

No luck with bypassing the NSS. Same deal/symptoms.

I'm in unknown territory for me...that's why I posted here. But I'm thinking it must be getting past/beyond the column because the "noise" (remember...not an actual "click" but more like a muffled "thud" on a small scale....best I can do for a description) is coming from the engine bay/firewall area.

Can't really pinpoint it but it almost sounds like it's coming from somewhere around the C500 connector....or maybe from the starter itself?

I'm thinking I'll have to figure out a way to crawl all the way under there and actually put eyeballs on the starter connections, or like Dennis did, remove it and try a replacement. I've seen/had starters "seize up" before, so that's not beyond the realm of possibilities. Like I said though, the thing that dissuaded me from fully suspecting trouble at the starter, is the lack of the familiar "click" I'm used to hearing when one doesn't work. OR the lack of "any" sound at all, which I've also experienced. This is presenting evidence of juice getting where it belongs, but something in the path isn't working! At least that's what my convoluted logic is trying to convince me of.

So back to the drawing board (or underneath the car is more accurate, unless anybody has another suggestion that can checked from "topside".)...

HAGO!

[This message has been edited by Sage (edited 06-01-2022).]

Raydar JUN 01, 01:08 PM
Do you have a test light? Try this...
The purple wire from the P/N switch goes straight to the solenoid. That circuit also feeds the cold start injector, and the cold start switch. Manual says it will be a purple/white wire, at both the cold start switch and the injector. You should see 12V there, with the key in "start". (The switch works by completing the ground to the injector, if the temp is cold enough. But that's not important for our purposes.)

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 06-01-2022).]

Sage JUN 02, 12:20 PM
After doing the tests outlined here and elsewhere....observation is that the starter is getting juice....just not enough juice.

So first question that comes to mind is....if any of the fusible links are bad, is it still possible for voltage to get all the way to the starter? One of the next steps will be to test all the fusible links, one at a time....any suggestions on how to go about doing that, other than the obvious, testing continuity.

The "soft thump" (as opposed to a "click") was traced to the cruise control connection. When unplugged, the noise is no longer heard.

Have a guy coming over tonight that is much better versed in electrical, and he is bringing a test light that also reads voltage.

Verified 12.2 volts coming from the battery, but not enough juice getting to the solenoid to even jump it there.....just get a few sparks but not "click" or engagement.

Could this still mean a bad solenoid or starter? Then one of my original questions comes to mind...WHAT "changed" overnight that caused the situation to develop.

First thing comes to mind is mouses .....haven't found any "chewed wires" yet, but there are wires that disappear into the body between the ignition switch and the C500, correct?

Will eventually get to the bottom of this and will report back when it happens, just in case anybody else ever experiences the same scenario.

Thanks for looking, all the suggestions and willingness to help.

HAGO!