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| Addressing everything I can think of so as not to get towed home again in the Indy... (Page 1/1) |
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Wudman
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JUN 15, 02:40 PM
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Last week I went out on a short run to pick up some new ignition wires. I noted a harder than usual starts a few times into having the car back on the road. There was also one stall after start and recently it started to stumble in low gears when I gassed it in low gears. Leaving the parts store it resisted starting, acting cold blooded, but it started. About a half mile later, it stalled and would not start,but did catch here and there for a few seconds. Even though I could hear the fuel pump, I started thinking fuel pump while waiting for a tow. Been there before in a Duke-powered Fiero.
Note that the second 6 gallons of fresh gas included a full can of Seafoam. First added gas after 500 miles in ten years was Chevron Prem. I have put about 150 miles without issue. So I was thinking that there was a possibility the Seafoam shook something loose in the tank.
While my Indy was a one-owner family car, there are few receipts or notes on what was replaced beyond tires. To get the car past SMOG, I replaced spark plugs, rotor, cap, EGR, and most of the vacuum hoses. At the SMOG shop, I was advised the timing was 11 degrees, but within spec. Once home, I decided to "fix" the timing, but once the ALDL was grounded, all I could do was guess given there was about a 3 degree swing that coincided with a very subtle miss. So I knew there was going to be more work to be done.
So my plan was to go through every aspect of the fuel delivery system as at this point it does not seem to be a grounding or other electrical issue. I have refreshed the TBI which had heavy shellac stains, but otherwise seemed to spray decently during my initial tune up for SMOG. The TBI because I needed to clean some heavy carbonization out of the intake. There were flakes of crap in the intake between the EGR and TBI. The car has 54,000 "old man" miles, of which maybe a max of 1,000 were put on the last ten years. I know for a fact the in the last seven, the car has logged about 600 including the last 150 I put on it since moving it down from storage a few weeks ago.
What I have learned?
- Standard Parts TBI kit has the fuel pressure regulator diaphragm, but not the spring. So buying the dedicated FPR rebuild was unnecessary, but I will use that and other spar TBI kit parts to rebuild another Rochester 300 TBI on my Indy Auto parts car.
- The hardest thing to buy for this car so far is the belts! The only it appears I will know the correct belts is to pull them off and either measure them or take them down to the parts store and compare to the two offerings for AC equipped 84 Fieros.
- I have sourced parts from Amazon, Rock Auto, Oreilly's and Autozone at this point due to pricing and ability to ship parts into California. Amazon may have some good prices, but will not ship the exact parts related to the fuel system I can buy over the counter in California apparently due to Prop 65.
So at this point my peace of mind has had me replace the spark plugs, spark plug wires, rotor, distributor cap, EGR, temperature sender for the ECM, various vacuum hoses, air filter, and PCV valve. I have retained all the old parts other than cap and rotor, which were obviously beyond servicing. I just got the new fuel pump, strainer, and "never fail" thermostat from RA. So far the only parts I haven't replaced are the hoses and belts, and that will come soon due to the belts starting to squeal and look a big on the glossier side. I have quite a few parts in my inventory including new distributor, ECM, and Fuel filter.
I will most likely drain the tank of Seafoam-enhanced gas into my Jerry can "collection", filter see if there is any debris before and then burning it in my Jimmy. If there is any debris at all in the existing fuel filter or tank, I will scrub the tank before re-installation.
About getting towed home...
Getting towed home sucked all sorts of muddy pig balls. USAA's road service is now close to a joke between the hateful ap and long wait. USAA, the contractor and I had a conversation and apparently they know they have issues because the contractor mentioned they have "had a few complaints recently". From first call to tow home, 3 hours, of which 1 hour was navigating between the phone, ap and tow inbound (sixty to ninety minutes) confirmation. Nevertheless, I tipped the two truck driver well because he wasn't the issue, liked the car, and took care not to wreck the front bumper.
(Yes, the attentive may notice the left rear tail light has an issue with the outermost bulb. Another issue to track down since I know the bulb is good.)
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Raydar
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JUN 15, 04:29 PM
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Wow! Good luck with the fix.
I didn't know you lived in California. Are condolences in order?
And USAA seems to not suck nearly as bad as AAA.
My wife broke down about 75 miles from home, in Gainesville GA (if you know where that is) on a Sunday afternoon, a little after noon.
They originally said they'd be there in a couple of hours. Which turned into a couple more. Which turned into me driving from west GA and getting there before AAA did, and picking her up.
(When I was there, I realized that her van had broken a timing belt - ahead of schedule, of course. It wasn't going anywhere.)
They finally arrived at about nightfall, and had her van at my designated shop at ~10:30 PM.
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Wudman
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JUN 15, 10:21 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Raydar:
Wow! Good luck with the fix.
I didn't know you lived in California. Are condolences in order?
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Heartfelt condolences appreciated. I lived in S. Illinois for a long time, but relocated back here in '13 due to marriage. Fortunately she is an exceptional reason to be here.
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And USAA seems to not suck nearly as bad as AAA... |
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Okay, you saved me $80 a year. I have been with USAA for 37 years. In conversing with the Contractor, they clued me into a way to force a conversation with a human. I guess I didn't pound "0" enough and got stock with my fat fingers managing ten different pages of information. I hope the fact that USAA encouraged the vendor/Contractor to follow up on my complaint means there will be changes. I thank you for the AAA warning!
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As to Gainesville, I visited there when I was a Sales Manager of a company that did large shows selling sold new, used, and refurbished consumer electronics across the United States. While we didn't do a show in Gainesville, Atlanta was a regular stop and that allowed me to hang (and float) in Gainesville a few times. I once spent a down week there 'cause I met a hottie with a boat who appreciated my boating and conversational skills. After a week of totally stressing out managing some thick-headed sales people and in some cases, a door that saw several thousand people an hour pass through, kicking it on some quiet corner of Lake Lanier on a boat was simply paradise. I swore I'd move there if I had the opportunity. |
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theogre
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JUN 16, 12:35 AM
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"Wrong" T-stat. May work but Only use Stant SuperStat for Fiero.
See my Cave, Thermostat & Radiator Caps
Most TBI rebuild have the "soft" parts plus regulator diaphragm. GP Sorensen is 1 I use for 700 series recently.
Many have several TBI to I-manifold gaskets... Have to be careful because some block IAC port for some sub versions of TBI.
Should never need a regulator spring. If you replace that even "Like for Like" minor diff in springs often need to adjust the reg and many are Very well Sealed.
Most GM TBI regulators are set at higher side of allowed pressure range. If test gauge reads lower like 9-10 then F-pump and part go with it maybe are problems.------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave
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armos
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JUN 16, 08:25 PM
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Fuel system is definitely the biggest source of trouble with a car that's been sitting. Check the fuel pressure if you haven't already and take short trips at least until you can be sure all the old gas has cleared out. You might end up having to drop the tank before this is over, but hopefully not.
Make sure all your electrical connectors are in good condition. Broken clips are common.
| quote | | At the SMOG shop, I was advised the timing was 11 degrees, but within spec. Once home, I decided to "fix" the timing, but once the ALDL was grounded, all I could do was guess given there was about a 3 degree swing that coincided with a very subtle miss. |
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CA has a 3 degree tolerance vs mfg spec (at least on every test I took from ~2000-2020, and apparently still true on yours).
You might get better mileage leaving it a little advanced, but listen for spark knock. Better to dial it down before the next test though, you'll probably get better test results that way and it avoids the risk of getting failed for it. If you ever think it's needed to get through a test, it's possible to retard the total timing further with a chip (they just check the distributor base timing).
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Wudman
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JUN 18, 03:18 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by theogre:
"Wrong" T-stat. May work but Only use Stant SuperStat for Fiero.
See my Cave, |
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Thanks. Rock Auto appears to have failed me in this case.
| quote | Originally posted by armos:
Fuel system is definitely the biggest source of trouble with a car that's been sitting...
...CA has a 3 degree tolerance vs mfg spec... |
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Yeah, the SMOG tech told me I just fell into spec. I will be re-timing once I get the tank back up and the TBI re-installed later today.
I didn't bother to test the pump given it was the original and we know what happens to Fiero fuel pumps when the sit for a while. While I have replaced several Fiero fuel pumps over the years, I was fortunate to have only one fail while driving my own care and that happened about 150 feet from my driveway. Over the years I have purchased a few Fieros at bargain prices due to fuel pumps. In every case, I tested the engine for running, told the seller what I suspected, and they still offered up the deal.
In this case, after pulling the tank, I was amazed how clean it was. Just a few small pieces of debris that may have been a random piece of vegetation. The heat shield was another story. There was a wealth of organic material trapped up against the engine firewall. Awesome tinder for a fire packed up there.
The tank was pretty clean, just a few floaters which I filtered out when draining the tank.
The strainer came apart immediately while it was still wet. It had holes in it. Once it dried, it crumbled. So one way or the other, I was going to have to deal with the fuel pump/strainer. Better on my terms, close to home. Years prevail over mileage.
As it came out of tank before touching
After some exposure and a gentle touch
 [This message has been edited by Wudman (edited 06-18-2022).]
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