If the space frame was galvanized then why do fieros rust? (Page 1/2)
bigjoe25 OCT 07, 03:44 PM
From what ive found the 84 to early 86's are galvanzied so they shouldnt rust. I was in the market for an indy but i have to run it in winter and or in the rain so i wouldnt want it to rust out. I also heard some indys were galvanized and nickel plated like volvos but that could of just been smoke. Also one more question, how hard is it to get a newer pontiac 3.5 in there? Does it bolt up? I heard it does jut like a 3.4 all you do is use the 3.4 intake manifold so you dont have to worry about throttle cables but the guys im talking to are NOT fiero experts. Thanks in advance.
Patrick OCT 07, 03:49 PM

quote
Originally posted by bigjoe25:

I was in the market for an indy but i have to run it in winter and or in the rain so i wouldnt want it to rust out.



Water isn't going to cause much of an issue. It's not as if the space frame is made of heavy cardboard.

Salt (mixed with water) is the problem.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-07-2022).]

ArthurPeale OCT 07, 04:32 PM
it's about the timeline. In their infancy, sure, they're far less likely to rust.

At this point these are now between 33-38 years old. Weak spots in the finish lets in the oxidizers, and the rest is history.
fieroguru OCT 07, 10:09 PM
The steel chassis is a mix of single and double side galvanized steel that is then spot welded. All the ungalvanized sides as well as the 4300 spot welds create a starting point for rust.
Some high end cars dip the entire chassis so it is coated inside and out and around all the spot welds. But for Fieros it is best to buy cars south of the rust belt where they haven't been exposed to salt.
fierogt28 OCT 07, 11:43 PM
Its like fieroguru said, if the car wasn't or never driven in winter, your good.

And a fiero will last a very long time if not driven in the winter.

Because many folks didn't care, they drove them because they were not expense cars.

You don't see any corvette owners drive their cars in the winter. If they do, their just rich and crazy.

I've seen here in Canada, in Montreal for that fact people driving high end / exotic cars in the fall with salt on the road.
Just outrageous...then they will trade the car in, and say it is a perfect / well kept car. I call BS.

A true sports car enthusiast takes their car out in May when there is no longer snow on the ground, and put away in October.
I know, I'm a Quebecer myself and seen this most of my life. Roads get slippery at night in October even if there isn't snow present.
I call after the end of September, the sports cars should be put away.

Coming back, always best to buy a solid / inspected fiero because I seen so many put money into a fiero than was rotted to hell.
Again, I know...this is what I did to my first 86GT. My 2nd fiero was an 87GT, and I made a mistake buy that too. The owner that I trusted,
I was getting the impression that his car was better than mine (old 86GT). Not getting it inspected in the province that it was being purchased,
I needed anyways to have it inspected in Quebec for plating the car. Boy, I tell you. I had some surprise. So don't ever trust anyone when it comes
to buying a used car. I wouldn't even trust my uncle.

Get it inspected yourself and not inspected were the seller wants you to have it inspected. I have a reason to believe that this 87GT was inspected
or passed with bogus inspection stickers. Or the certified mechanic that does the inspections was not a honest shop. Any competent mechanic
would of seen that fiero, would of said, off the road. Or, this is scrap. I remember the owner mentioned to me that he was think of parting the car out
1 year before, and I remember that. Why would you part out a good car if it was claimed to be really good? Simply because it was in bad shape before.
I also remember the owner which is on this forum, but probably hasn't been active in years, asked me if I knew anyone that sold inspection stickers.
But he mentioned it was for newer Toyota, that he claims that it couldn't pass inspection. If he would do that, he would most likely do it for the fiero.
We did come to an agreement on refund 750$ of the purchase price, but was still expensive for a car that ending up at the scrap yard.

So, really...I learned my lesson. Can't trust people, and have the car inspected.

The frame is the most important piece of the car, as you can't go to GM and buy one. Parts, there's all kinds.
Please learn from this post...don't do the mistake I did.
It cost me longer in the long run, but a very pricey mistake.
The extra 3000$ can get you a car that is solid.
Another thing I learned was most people today when they sell a car, they don't care about you or where their car will end up or go to.
They just want the money in their hand and goodbye.
Realistically good solid collector cars, the owner has pride in it, and wants it to go to a good home. People that care, will give you a good price.
Another thing today, I would never buy a fiero from a 18-25 year old kid. Their just not trust worthy, and all I dealt with are liars and promise you
a lot.

Another lesson learned.

HTH,


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fierogt28

88 GT, Loaded, 5-speed.
88 GT, 5-speed. Beechwood interior, All original.

DimeMachine OCT 09, 01:24 PM
I have taken apart quite a few Fieros in MN. The front half of the spaceframe is typically mostly rust free. The back half directly behind the passenger compartment gets the worst rust. The uppers go first - I don' think they were galvanized and I have had 84, 86 and 87's tore down to the shell. The lowers hold up much better and I believe they are galvanized - but subject to enough salt - they will rust just like a galvanized chain link fence will near the ocean.

Just my first hand observations after having numerous since 1990.
Dennis LaGrua OCT 10, 04:04 PM
Galvanization is basically a thin sacrificial coating of zinc over steel. While it does extend the life of steel by slowing the rust and corrosion process it is useless against road water that commonly contains salt and other acidic compounds. Galvanizing provides only rust resistance and is not rust proofing

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"THE COLUSSUS"
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Fitz301 OCT 11, 01:30 AM
Is this true? Were Fiero's actually made with galvanized steel?

I was going to weld in some new metal to fix my floorpans, but, if this true, this changes everything.
theogre OCT 11, 05:07 AM
⚠️ Warning: Galvanized Steel is Toxic to Weld including Spot welding.
Often Zinc Copper and other contaminates also makes bad welds.

Is why you grind off the galvanize and even then wear proper PPE to never breath the dust fumes and smoke from this. Welding heat may carry and heat the zinc farther away then many think and still putout zinc fumes.

No car company I know of use galvanized steel to make product.
Most to all don't galvanize after making a car.
Big reason is cold and hot galvanizing cost way too much $.
E2A--> Plus both methods are major HAZMAT problems jacking up the cost to use them. They can't follow BS methods you see on YT etc. w/o major issues w/ OSHA and EPA plus whatever State rules. Many fools DIY smelting and galvanizing have often contaminate their homes and more poisoning kids....

Since ~ 1980 GM and others "Dip" the car and some parts after made them w/ various chemicals. ⚠️ Many "dip" formulas are Toxic when grinding or welding too. Before that became "standard" most are only painted w/ same paint type on body panels.
Dip coating is better but wears off and metal will rust.

Before some ask or make nonsense... Ziebart et al "under coating" also wears off but before that often have other problems because installed poorly or worse and often have More rust then cars w/o this crap. (Ziebart is still around but not like in 70's and 80's.) Worse because often sprays on transmission, drive shaft and axles, P-brake cables, etc.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-11-2022).]

David Hambleton OCT 11, 01:52 PM
I was surprised by this info; I thought there was lots of one and two sided galvanized sheet metal used in cars since the 1980s:

quote
Originally posted by theogre:
No car company I know of use galvanized steel to make product.
Most to all don't galvanize after making a car.



Mr Google contends that all auto companies use some form of galvanized steel since the eighties; enabling thinner, lighter yet strong enough structures.
Might be a thin layer of zinc but if unbroken, enables 10 year corrosion warranties.

Here's one bit of Google info:
Nowadays, the use of zinc-coated bodies for automobiles is standard procedure in auto manufacturing. The 'body-in-white' of a car makes up about 80% of the body, all using galvanized steel. Sept 5, 2019

All that aside, I didn't think the Fiero was galvanized; it's magic coating was some other soup:
Pennock's Fiero Forumhttps://www.fiero.nl › forum › Archive-000002 › HTML
Feb 6, 2006 — Following the mill-and-drill procedure, the frame was dipped into an electronically charged primer called cathodic elpo uniprime.

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 10-11-2022).]