New day, new clutch problem (Headscratcher alert) (Page 1/5)
Dukesterpro NOV 02, 10:14 AM
I'm at a loss, all I am going to say is this car is lucky I love it so much, if it was any other car it would be on the express truck to the crusher.


You probably remember me and this car from previous posts regarding faulty slaves and flywheel spacers. Same car. 1984, 4 Speed Muncie.

Clutch has been good for 5k miles. One day I got up and pushed the clutch pedal down, but the clutch did not disengage. It had gotten cold and I just assumed my slave or master went bad and thought nothing of it. Pedal felt fine, if not slightly stiffer than usual. Drove it to work rev matching. Came home swapped in a new master and slave (Rodneys) and low and behold the clutch felt no different post bleeding and still wouldn't disengage completely. I did notice if I got it moving if I pushed the pedal half way down it would start to disengage but then re engage when i pushed it the rest of the way. (What the heck???). I had just driven through some pretty bad rain, so my brain thought hey, your clutch is prolly rusty, (it had sat post rainstorm due to a flat tire). So I got it out on the street and bumped it with the starter while pushing the clutch down. The car bucked alot but eventually the clutch "broke free"
I took it for a 1 hour stop and go drive and the problem went away. Hooray?

Woke up the next morning to no clutch. Pedal feels stiffer than normal for sure. Double checked slave throw. 1.3 inches. Bumped it with the starter, it broke free. Clutch worked fine on the way to work.

On the way home it got really weird. The clutch randomly decides to not work. Sometimes it will throw, sometimes it wont. During the times it wont engage, it does that partial disengagement at half pedal, reengaging at full pedal. It was completely random when it decided to work and not work. If I stopped and bumped it with the starter it would usually free it up but it required this weird combo of put it in first bump the starter, then immediately press the clutch when it starts to roll forward. Parked the car overnight.

Woke up this morning. Clutch pedal is significantly stiffer than its ever been, slave movement is 1.3 inches. Clutch WILL NOT disengage no matter what I do.

Clutch kit is a LUK with a resurface OEM flywheel and appropriate spacer. Please note that this setup was perfect since it was installed 5k miles ago. Rodney's Master with adjustable bango and Slave aswell as a fiero store steel pedal. (I do not believe this to be hydraulic related)


Anyone have any ideas, because I am entirely lost. This goes against my understanding of the clutch system for a clutch plate to randomly stick.
skywurz NOV 02, 11:58 AM
Got an inspection camera? This sounds like a bad clutch disk to me.
Dukesterpro NOV 02, 12:31 PM

quote
Originally posted by skywurz:

Got an inspection camera? This sounds like a bad clutch disk to me.



I do not, im just bummed that I once again have to take the car apart to do this clutch, would I be able to see it from the inspection port?


Also would a bad disk be more gradual and consistent in its failure. Not one day it works, park it overnight and boom no clutch. And then maybe clutch. I would just expect it to slowly fail and then not work period. I was almost thinking input shaft catching the pilot bearing

Im stuck at work and just spitballing
skywurz NOV 02, 01:00 PM
you may be able to see if the pad is still on the clutch disk, if you put a camera in sideways at the starter. you may also be able to see if there is a bunch of shredded disk in the housing. I have seen clutch disks go out and the clutch go metal to metal. I have seen them kinda function then melt and fuse to both the pressure plate and the fly wheel or one or both. Just an idea.
wftb NOV 02, 01:01 PM
Really it could be a lot of things. Bad throwout bearing, warn fork arm that actually pushes the clutch open and closed. I think you need to look inside. From my own personal experience and from reading about all the problems people have with aftermarket clutches, an OEM style clutch just lasts longer with less problems.
Dukesterpro NOV 02, 01:32 PM
Alright, I'm gonna go ahead and take a peak inside when I get home. Its got to be the pad. I also forgot to mention it has a brand new throw-out arm and bearing from the fiero store, so I'm guessing its not that. Absolutely disheartening though.

I will make sure to keep everyone updated. If you have any other ideas please do not be afraid to chime in. Save me from pulling this cradle again
Spoon NOV 02, 05:39 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dukesterpro: I was almost thinking input shaft catching the pilot bearing[QUOTE]

If you're referring to a pilot bearing in the back of an engine crankshaft, I thought they were not required on front wheel drive design. A bearing in the transmission around the output shaft serves the purpose. If you're using a pilot bearing in addition to that you may be creating a binding situation.

Just my 2 cents.

Spoon


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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

Dukesterpro NOV 03, 03:38 PM

quote
Originally posted by Spoon:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dukesterpro: I was almost thinking input shaft catching the pilot bearing[QUOTE]

If you're referring to a pilot bearing in the back of an engine crankshaft, I thought they were not required on front wheel drive design. A bearing in the transmission around the output shaft serves the purpose. If you're using a pilot bearing in addition to that you may be creating a binding situation.

Just my 2 cents.

Spoon



Whether or not they are required. My engine which had never had its clutch changed I am the second owner, this information is from the first owner) and it had a pilot bushing from the factory. So I installed an identical one from the clutch kit. It worked fine for 5000 miles of pretty solid stop and go.

Also as a update. I got into the car after work and the clutch is working fine. Drove it about 50 miles with no issue. Stopped at the store to get some bread. Got back in. No clutch. Drove it home. Parked it. Started it this morning and the clutch works perfect.

Im still working on getting it apart but you guys have to admit this is weird as heck.
Patrick NOV 03, 04:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dukesterpro:

Whether or not they are required. My engine which had never had its clutch changed I am the second owner, this information is from the first owner) and it had a pilot bushing from the factory. So I installed an identical one from the clutch kit.



From what I understand, the manual transmission input shaft doesn't actually reach the crankshaft pilot bushing in a Fiero application.
Dukesterpro NOV 03, 05:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

From what I understand, the manual transmission input shaft doesn't actually reach the crankshaft pilot bushing in a Fiero application.



That is interesting news, I wonder why they would go through the process of installing them then. Maybe when the flywheel is made they preinstall them for other vehicles? But what other vehicles would use that flywheel and need one where the fiero wouldn't?