88 Notchie will not start or even turn over (Page 1/1)
DanMFiero88 MAR 13, 05:09 PM
Hi everyone.

I have a base model 88 Notchie with 2.5l Iron Duke and Isuzu 5-speed manual transmission.

The vehicle will not start or even turn over in neutral. It tries to start with the vehicle in 1st gear and the clutch depressed. It only turns over a couple of times before it quits. The car moves forward even with the clutch depressed. The clutch pedal does not feel right - don't feel the pedal travel get easier once the clutch is disengaged. My. son and I have bled the clutch twice - no change.

Battery is holding at 12v, no fuse issues, and no electrical wiring issues. Fuel pump is priming the injector.

Any ideas on what is wrong? Troubleshooting? It is not a battery or electrical issue.

Thanks!
sdgdf MAR 13, 07:04 PM

quote
Originally posted by DanMFiero88:

Hi everyone.

I have a base model 88 Notchie with 2.5l Iron Duke and Isuzu 5-speed manual transmission.

The vehicle will not start or even turn over in neutral. It tries to start with the vehicle in 1st gear and the clutch depressed. It only turns over a couple of times before it quits. The car moves forward even with the clutch depressed. The clutch pedal does not feel right - don't feel the pedal travel get easier once the clutch is disengaged. My. son and I have bled the clutch twice - no change.

Battery is holding at 12v, no fuse issues, and no electrical wiring issues. Fuel pump is priming the injector.

Any ideas on what is wrong? Troubleshooting? It is not a battery or electrical issue.

Thanks!



Uhhh, this might be a stupid question, but you are pushing the clutch when trying to start in neutral, correct? It has a clutch safety switch.

Have you tried bump-starting the car?
Dukesterpro MAR 14, 07:38 AM
Since I have been through this. Lets break it down.


If it rolling with the clutch in in 1st gear. Its not going to start without driving away. All you are doing it cooking your starter. You clearly have a clutch problem.


You need to press the clutch in neutral. All manual FIero's had an interlock right from the factory. What does it do with the clutch depressed and in neutral when cranking.
WalkerTexan MAR 14, 10:18 AM
The clutch interlock switch ALWAYS requires depressing the clutch pedal to start, regardless of gear or neutral. You can bypass it easily enough with a heavy wire jumpering the yellow and purple wire on the switch at the pedal; sounds like it is working correctly but bypassing that will eliminate that being an issue. Many of us have it defeated permanently because the switches do fail.

The second problem is the clutch system; most likely the slave cylinder has failed because you cannot start in 1st gear without the car trying to move; that means the clutch is still engaged which is exactly what happens when the hydraulic clutch system fails. Bleeding is tricky and most times impossible to fix if the cylinder has failed. Common issue.

Try starting in neutral again with the clutch depressed because the switch is only activated by the pedal and not the hydraulic portion. If that works then fix your clutch. If it doesn't, then fix your switch.
DanMFiero88 MAR 14, 10:19 AM
Thanks - I am depressing the clutch pedal when starting. The car will not even crank in neutral with the clutch pedal depressed. It will crank for a second in 1st gear with the clutch pedal depressed and will roll forward during that brief second as if it is in gear.
DanMFiero88 MAR 14, 10:20 AM
I also have the car on jackstands so it won’t actually roll under these conditions.
ArthurPeale MAR 14, 10:35 AM
you're sure there are no wiring issues? The description kinda sounds like a bad engine ground.
theogre MAR 14, 12:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by DanMFiero88:
Battery is holding at 12v, no fuse issues, and no electrical wiring issues. Fuel pump is priming the injector.

Any ideas on what is wrong? Troubleshooting? It is not a battery or electrical issue.

Sorry but Battery @ 12v is near "Dead."
Full Charge Battery is 12.6 to 13V.

Even w/ a full charge battery the Cables and Starter can still have problems on top of Clutch problems.
Worse, starter and cables can/will get very hot very fast trying to start w/ clutch problems. Overheating starter or cables does permanent damage if doesn't kill them now.

See my Cave, Battery etc.
if get errors going there see https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/146682.html

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

sdgdf MAR 14, 05:36 PM
Well, first off it sounds like you have a clutch hydraulic issue? Even so with you saying its on jackstands and the rear is up, you should be able to start it and have the wheels spin. You could bypass the starter by bump starting the car in 2nd but I don't think that's possible with the hydraulics acting up.

12v from the battery? I don't want to contradict ogre but mine started on 11.6 the other day. Sometimes if I want to chill and look at stuff on my phone I'll sit in the car in the garage listening to the radio. I did that for a few days and the battery was down below 12. Thought it might not crank but tried anyways before hooking up the charger box and was surprised it started right up. If your starter solenoid is weak, you have bad wiring, bad grounds, etc maybe you need more? I'd hook up a battery charger and set it to the 50A start setting and try starting it. That and maybe start throwing money at it by getting a new starter. Also go in with a flashlight and look around the engine bay for all the grounds, take them off and clean them with a wire brush. I don't know where they are on a duke, maybe someone else or Ogres Cave knows.

You should be able to work on this and get it to start in neutral. Then you can figure out your clutch hydraulics problem.
sdgdf MAR 14, 05:40 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46atY0OlVQc

Could also try some variation of that, you don't need to pull the starter to try that. Its risky, you could basically arc weld the screwdriver to the starter terminals if you hold it on too long. Or something where you ground the starter using a jumper cable and try cranking normally?