EV Conversion Research questions for a bit of fiction (Page 1/2)
BlindGuyandKarr MAR 28, 07:10 PM
Hi,

If it isn't apparent by the user name I don't drive. I do have some vision but due to retinal scarring in one eye, a malformed retina in the other, and general nearsightedness? I've never driven. This makes anything involving cares in my attempts at writing a bit of a panic issue because 'what if I get the details wrong?' Oh, sure most people won't care but say I need to mention something specific?

Plus I in general want to learn. So, I'm going to ask questions and hope the responses are useful, or at least aren't variations of 'just ask google.'

* I've seen a couple of videos of people who have done electric conversions. Yet neither really show off handling or really talk about range. I want to say I saw the figure of 200 miles being mentioned. The problem is I don't know what that means when it comes to about town use.
Note: the character I plan on having this car is pretty well only going to use it for closed-track drives, but I want to know generally what is realistic here.

* I've been seeing things about hub-mounted motors both pro and con but I haven't seen any real demonstrations just some talking head quoting a data sheet. that tells me nothing. I want ot know what it feels like to drive something where the motors are in the wheels. Just as importantly I want ot know what the battery layout is, and if one could put battery where the engine would normally be, and if literally, everything including transmission/gearing is in those hub motors, if the transmission space is needed or if both engine and transmission space can go over to battery.
Note: This is more of a personal curiosity thing at this point. I've heard this isn't really done but only gotten vague answers. plus I'm sure the suspension wouldn eed to be swapped out.

* Unrelated to electric questions: Does anyone sell Mera body kit reproductions?

* Also unrelated: Whould the body length is diffrent between the 88 production model and the 90 prototype, are there either body kits for the 90, or dash reproductions to swap the interrior dash out for something that mimics the 90's look?

Apologie if these seem silly. This car is going to be as much a character as the guy that drives it. A gift the guy hangs onto and had updated and worked on through the past decade as new technology appears for EV use.
82-T/A [At Work] MAR 28, 08:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:

Hi,

If it isn't apparent by the user name I don't drive. I do have some vision but due to retinal scarring in one eye, a malformed retina in the other, and general nearsightedness? I've never driven. This makes anything involving cares in my attempts at writing a bit of a panic issue because 'what if I get the details wrong?' Oh, sure most people won't care but say I need to mention something specific?

Plus I in general want to learn. So, I'm going to ask questions and hope the responses are useful, or at least aren't variations of 'just ask google.'

* I've seen a couple of videos of people who have done electric conversions. Yet neither really show off handling or really talk about range. I want to say I saw the figure of 200 miles being mentioned. The problem is I don't know what that means when it comes to about town use.
Note: the character I plan on having this car is pretty well only going to use it for closed-track drives, but I want to know generally what is realistic here.

* I've been seeing things about hub-mounted motors both pro and con but I haven't seen any real demonstrations just some talking head quoting a data sheet. that tells me nothing. I want ot know what it feels like to drive something where the motors are in the wheels. Just as importantly I want ot know what the battery layout is, and if one could put battery where the engine would normally be, and if literally, everything including transmission/gearing is in those hub motors, if the transmission space is needed or if both engine and transmission space can go over to battery.
Note: This is more of a personal curiosity thing at this point. I've heard this isn't really done but only gotten vague answers. plus I'm sure the suspension wouldn eed to be swapped out.

* Unrelated to electric questions: Does anyone sell Mera body kit reproductions?

* Also unrelated: Whould the body length is diffrent between the 88 production model and the 90 prototype, are there either body kits for the 90, or dash reproductions to swap the interrior dash out for something that mimics the 90's look?

Apologie if these seem silly. This car is going to be as much a character as the guy that drives it. A gift the guy hangs onto and had updated and worked on through the past decade as new technology appears for EV use.


Hi! I'm going to try to answer as much as I can, but there might be some corrections to things I say and others will chime in as well.



quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:
* I've seen a couple of videos of people who have done electric conversions. Yet neither really show off handling or really talk about range. I want to say I saw the figure of 200 miles being mentioned. The problem is I don't know what that means when it comes to about town use.



The Fiero has 47/53 weight distribution with a rear-bias. When people do electric car conversions, they usually have to work with what can be adapted to what the car already has. More modern EV cars, like the Tesla, was designed for dual motors... so it's less likely that you will see an EV conversion that has motors mounted in the same way it is stock on a Tesla. Normally, they literally just replace the engine with an electric motor. In most cases, this literally means they create some sort of bellhousing adaptor. Here is an example of one electric Fiero: https://www.thedrive.com/ne...at-an-electric-fiero . Also, I barely remember this... but I think in the movie Naked Gun 2-1/2, there was a blue Electric Fiero that was on display... hah.

As for handling... an electric Fiero is going to be decidedly heavier than a gas powered one... which does affect handling. But the good thing is that generally you can place the batteries around the car to help off-set the weight. There's room in the front, and a lot of room in the back. The more batteries in the car, the longer the range and the more potential for power. 200 miles is totally doable with a modest amount of batteries, and some off-the-shelf parts. You could likely get 200 miles from a conversion, have a good deal more power than a stock Fiero, and not really increase the weight TOO much... not enough that it would have a dramatic effect on the weight. But if you want more range, you need more batteries.



quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:
* I've been seeing things about hub-mounted motors both pro and con but I haven't seen any real demonstrations just some talking head quoting a data sheet. that tells me nothing. I want ot know what it feels like to drive something where the motors are in the wheels. Just as importantly I want ot know what the battery layout is, and if one could put battery where the engine would normally be, and if literally, everything including transmission/gearing is in those hub motors, if the transmission space is needed or if both engine and transmission space can go over to battery.
Note: This is more of a personal curiosity thing at this point. I've heard this isn't really done but only gotten vague answers. plus I'm sure the suspension wouldn eed to be swapped out.



So, I kind of answered this in the response above... but basically... hub-mounted motors (if I understand them correctly), increase "unsprung weight" which can adversely affect handling... but hopefully someone who has worked with these or knows more than I do will correct me.

Batteries can go anywhere you want. As I mentioned above, most people will replace the engine with the new EV motor, and just mount it to a manual transmission or automatic. The batteries then could go in the trunk, the front compartment, or could literally replace the area currently being used by the gas tank (which is a large area directly in the middle of the car between the two seats. The fancier and more expensive the batteries... the smaller and higher charge you can get.

If you did have hub-mounted motors, you'd need to completely change out the suspension. I don't know what that would look like, but it would require a LOT of customization on the car's frame and chassis... I don't think anyone would really do this, as the benefit simply just wouldn't be there, and you'd destroy the car's handling.



quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:
* Unrelated to electric questions: Does anyone sell Mera body kit reproductions?

* Also unrelated: Whould the body length is diffrent between the 88 production model and the 90 prototype, are there either body kits for the 90, or dash reproductions to swap the interrior dash out for something that mimics the 90's look?



There are several companies that produce body kits... including a company named PISA. If you look on eBay, there are companies selling a variety of Ferrari-style front bumpers for the Fiero.

I don't know if there's any difference in the body length.. it's been a while since I've seen them, but the dash that they used in the 90 looks suspiciously like the original dash that was in the early 1980s prototype.
BlindGuyandKarr MAR 29, 10:27 AM
Thank you for the fairly prompt response.


quote
have a good deal more power than a stock Fiero



This is the primary reason I asked after handling.

Plus barring a drivetrain rebuild it's a rear wheel drive vehicle (though I do remember seeing somethign ot the effect the setup is basically taking a front wheeldrive series of parts and flipping it because the engine is in the back.)

I really do appreciate the feedback and help. I'm probably going well overboard because most people won't care. I use these research outings as an excuse to learn though, because it's neat.
fierosound MAR 29, 11:18 AM

quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:

I do remember seeing something of the effect the setup is basically taking a front wheel drive series of parts and flipping it because the engine is in the back.)




An often misquoted "fact" that's been "copied" and repeated over the years.
If they did that, you'd have 5 gears driving in reverse.
The FWD power train was simply moved back 10 feet.

What they did do was swap the knuckles from side to side, so that the toe-links would be at the rear.
THAT"S likely where the "flipped" idea came from, and someone mistook it to mean the whole power train.

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BlindGuyandKarr MAR 29, 11:30 AM

quote
Originally posted by fierosound:


An often misquoted "fact" that's been "copied" and repeated over the years.
If they did that, you'd have 5 gears driving in reverse.
The FWD power train was simply moved back 10 feet.

What they did do was swap the knuckles from side to side, so that the toe-links would be at the rear.
THAT"S likely where the "flipped" idea came from, and someone mistook it to mean the whole power train.






See now this is something that's genuinely useful. Nothing major just one of those minor character interactions that add a touch of life to things to show that ther'es something going on. 'Oh hey isn't that hte car where the drive train is flipped?' 'Actually no, it's kinda weird how that kept getting tossed around as a fact since if you stopped and thought about it, you'd end up with one forward gear and five reverse gears. What they did was swap the knuckles from one side to the other so the toe-links would be at the rear.' '....Huh.'

And then move on with things.

I really like that debunk. Thank you.
82-T/A [At Work] MAR 29, 11:37 AM

quote
Originally posted by BlindGuyandKarr:

See now this is something that's genuinely useful. Nothing major just one of those minor character interactions that add a touch of life to things to show that ther'es something going on. 'Oh hey isn't that hte car where the drive train is flipped?' 'Actually no, it's kinda weird how that kept getting tossed around as a fact since if you stopped and thought about it, you'd end up with one forward gear and five reverse gears. What they did was swap the knuckles from one side to the other so the toe-links would be at the rear.' '....Huh.'

And then move on with things.

I really like that debunk. Thank you.




Yeah, specifically, the Fiero's engine / drivetran is "transverse" ... meaning that the engine is placed side-to-side, and it uses a transverse motor. For some years (of Citation), the subframe that the Fiero sits on is literally just taken from another car (Chevy Citation) and placed in back.

This is different from MOST rear wheel drive cars, where the engine sits longitudinally in the front of the car, with a driveshaft going to the rear differential.

There are other "transverse" rear wheel drive cars... and as far as I know, they're all mid-engine... the Fiat X-1/9 Bertone, the Toyota MR2, the Acura NSX, and even the Lamborghini Miura (or whatever it's called). There are others.
Wichita MAR 29, 01:28 PM
I'm currently converting my Fiero into an EV.

Currently it's around 300lbs less as it sits right now. That is fully and mechanically installed. That is using a Nissan Leaf full stack including the gearbox.

I'm working on the battery configuration right now. I don't need a battery setup to make it have 150-200+ mile range. So that isn't my target, so I can deal with a lot less battery weight. Currently I can probably get around 75-miles of range for around 200lbs of battery packs. This will still put me under weight of a 4-banger but with 150 HP. The torque will be stupid crazy of course.
BlindGuyandKarr MAR 29, 02:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

I'm currently converting my Fiero into an EV.

Currently it's around 300lbs less as it sits right now. That is fully and mechanically installed. That is using a Nissan Leaf full stack including the gearbox.

I'm working on the battery configuration right now. I don't need a battery setup to make it have 150-200+ mile range. So that isn't my target, so I can deal with a lot less battery weight. Currently I can probably get around 75-miles of range for around 200lbs of battery packs. This will still put me under weight of a 4-banger but with 150 HP. The torque will be stupid crazy of course.



How far will seventy five miles get you? I just put a number up as a target because I don't know what is reasonable. Given the one I'm putting in sotry is track work maybe what youv'e got would be a preferable setup since fewer batteries means less weight for the drivetrain to push.

Lemme know how yours handles?

Also were you able to take the leaf's insturment panel into the dash?
Wichita MAR 29, 03:28 PM
I'm not using the Leaf dash, as most of that requires more work than necessary. I'm working on the details of the gauge display.

The suspension is all new, including solid cradle mounts. My goal is to get it on the road by the end of this summer.



[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 03-29-2023).]

82-T/A [At Work] MAR 29, 03:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by Wichita:

I'm not using the Leaf dash, as most of that requires more work than necessary. I'm working on the details of the gauge display.

The suspension is all new, including solid cradle mounts. My goal is to get it on the road by the end of this summer.









Wow, that is going to be awesome. What kind of 0-60 times are you thinking that you'll see?