Engine choice. Help (Page 1/3)
James G MAY 09, 09:21 PM
Hi everyone.
Happy to say I had bought today a 1988 Formula CJB T-Top 5 speed car.
Motor is dead and I happen to have 3 engine choices but worried about maintaining its value what ever it may be.
Do I keep it stock 2.8L?
Or 3.4L DOHC
Or Brand New LS4 engine from GM?
The car will need restoration and will keep the body and paint all stock.
The car is complete.
What motor should I use?

I value your opinions and your thoughts on your direction of choice.

Thanks and have a great evening.
Mike in Sydney MAY 09, 09:36 PM
Brand new LS4!
frockfiero MAY 09, 09:54 PM
Leave that baby bone stock!
cvxjet MAY 10, 12:52 AM
One of the easiest engine swaps is the 3.4 F-body long block swap. It uses the original 2.8 induction system, and gives you approx' 20 more hp- not all that much, BUT it also gives you 30 more lb/ft of torque.....More critically, all of the power comes in at a lower RPM- which is like having a better final drive ratio.

My Fiero had 140 HP and 170 torque originally and would get to 60 in 7.5 seconds....Now, I have tested it numerous times with my G-Meter and have been able to get to 60 twice in 6.5 seconds. This was back approx' 10 years ago.

It may be better now- I have copied the "Dawg" intake manifold mod, eliminating the pinch-point where the intake blends from tubular to the flat plenium...I tested my car going up hill on 580 with my neighbor in the car (Added weight)...stock manifold, I was able to get to 4500 RPM while with the mod I was able to get up to 4700- and it was still climbing- but we were at 90+ and there was a bit of light Sunday traffic so I cut it.

I also have removed quiet a bit of Cat chunks from my exhaust, so the car may be able to get to 60 in 6 seconds flat now- even with me driving it......

What I really like about this swap is that it keeps the car looking stock- the Fiero engine looked very good. Plus, it sound like the stock Fiero V6- and NO V6 ever sounded better!
jjd2296 MAY 10, 07:28 AM
I would go one step further. 3.4 F body with a supercharger. If your formula doesn’t have AC then this is a perfect option. And I believe you’re a mechanic so cost won’t be much if you’re doing it yourself. Sc will cost the most but you can find a used one. I have a spare custom bracket and can help you with what you need for the build. You’re in Niagara? Message me. Also look at my build for m the construction zone Mister ttop build. This set up is with a v5 Vortec SC. I originally started with a V1 set up on my 87 5speed then upgraded to a V5 and custom crank pulley. This pic is of my set up for My automatic ttop. Haven’t dyno the 5 speed yet but I can tell you from feel is above 250 hp. Its totall rips around. I burry the needle in 4th on the highway. Now the 3.4 blocks are getting harder to find especially here in Canada.




Here’s the engineering me in the 5 speed. I did the plenum mod similar to the ppg pace cars what had a 3.1 turbo set up. It feels and sounds amazing but not a cheap swap. If you’re handy and can do it yourself it will still cost you around 5-6k Canadian in parts and tune. I use Ryan from sinister so if you do the same set up he already has some files to get you started.

[This message has been edited by jjd2296 (edited 05-10-2023).]

82-T/A [At Work] MAY 10, 08:45 AM
The car will probably have "some" value in the long-term being a CJB, 5-Speed, and an 88 Formula. If you cared at all about keeping it original, then this is what I'd do.

I'd probably try to rebuild the 2.8 into at least a 3.2 (3.1 crank and rods w/ .040 overbore pistons), or I'd try to go with a 3.4 crank / rods / piston set and have it machined.


But if you don't care about numbers matching, you can just as easily get a 3.4 F-body block (93-95 Camaro or Firebird) and have it rebuilt (or a short block, whatever), and have it drilled for the new starter location, and drop that in.

For the most part, all you need to do is just get larger injectors (17lb injectors), and then port-match all the intake ports from the cyl head all the way through the plenum. And then you'll have something around ~180hp that runs pretty sweet, and looks 100% stock... and a lot more fun to drive.

If you go with any of those other engine swaps... you're looking at a LOT of additional work. With the 3.4 F-body, everything basically bolts up as it should... and you don't have to do anything special except drill a single hold and tap an existing hole (and new hole) for the starter bolt (if I remember correctly).
Dukesterpro MAY 10, 08:54 AM
The two folks up top saying "LS4 Swap it!" and "Keep it stock!' have me rolling with laughter. 2 responses and we are right where we started.

Congrats on the new car. Give it the motor it deserves. (3.4DOHC)
82-T/A [At Work] MAY 10, 09:08 AM

quote
Originally posted by Dukesterpro:

The two folks up top saying "LS4 Swap it!" and "Keep it stock!' have me rolling with laughter. 2 responses and we are right where we started.

Congrats on the new car. Give it the motor it deserves. (3.4DOHC)




Hah... I guess I'm at the point where for me (my opinion), there's very little you can do to this car to make it legitimately a competitive car. Even if you put an LS4 in it, the run of the mill Tesla Model X will still destroy it in a drag race. So for me... I kind of enjoy keeping a car relatively similar to how it was when it was built. Times are different now, and even **** cars are faster. So in that regard, I do think the Fiero needs more power to get around in day to day, and still be fun. I think the 3.4 is pretty decent to do that. I like the DOHC, but then it gets rid of the Fiero plenum, which is part of what makes the Fiero a bit unique. You wouldn't be getting too much more power over and above the f-body 3.4, like what's the difference, 180-210hp?

For the record, I always wanted the older 1995 (?) Pontiac Grand Prix GTP with that motor in it. I always thought it was a cool car.
jjd2296 MAY 10, 12:05 PM
I wouldnt touch the 2.8 block with a ten foot pole. its cooling and oiling ports are subpar. just get a 3.4 block, less time money and hassle.


quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

The car will probably have "some" value in the long-term being a CJB, 5-Speed, and an 88 Formula. If you cared at all about keeping it original, then this is what I'd do.

I'd probably try to rebuild the 2.8 into at least a 3.2 (3.1 crank and rods w/ .040 overbore pistons), or I'd try to go with a 3.4 crank / rods / piston set and have it machined.


But if you don't care about numbers matching, you can just as easily get a 3.4 F-body block (93-95 Camaro or Firebird) and have it rebuilt (or a short block, whatever), and have it drilled for the new starter location, and drop that in.

For the most part, all you need to do is just get larger injectors (17lb injectors), and then port-match all the intake ports from the cyl head all the way through the plenum. And then you'll have something around ~180hp that runs pretty sweet, and looks 100% stock... and a lot more fun to drive.

If you go with any of those other engine swaps... you're looking at a LOT of additional work. With the 3.4 F-body, everything basically bolts up as it should... and you don't have to do anything special except drill a single hold and tap an existing hole (and new hole) for the starter bolt (if I remember correctly).

[This message has been edited by jjd2296 (edited 05-10-2023).]

Vintage-Nut MAY 10, 12:14 PM
So James, the golden questions are:
*What is your long-term goal with the car?
*What engine you will enjoy more?

Remember that as you age, your priorities will change…..

The two camps we’re talking about the engine is ‘Stock’ or ‘Custom-Modify’.

As a young lad, I modified many motorcycles and cars. Selling these vehicles took longer and harder to find a buyer.

As I grew older, I changed camps to the stock side of the 'street’ (if you'll forgive the pun). Selling stock vehicles normally has been faster and easier.

So, looking back:
I helped my father to restore a Ford Model T and as a kid, I wanted to put a bigger engine!
As an Ol’ fart, I now appreciate ‘why’ my father craved to restore the original engine.

This is my two cents James and choose wisely,
VN