Anyone ever use one of these? (Page 1/2)
fredtoast JUL 16, 10:58 PM
This is Fiero related because I bought new plugs for my new Fiero, but I don't know how I am going to get to the front 3.

https://www.reflectionk.com...rm=23856785746580126
Seems like it would be like a combination of a universal joint and an extension. And sometimes even universal joints are hard to wok into tight places.
IMSA GT JUL 16, 11:38 PM
There have been several questions about the front plugs over the years. Some people simply remove the dogbone and use a ratchet strap to tilt the motor towards the rear and that gives them enough access to use standard tools on the plugs.

I use that same bendable tool in your post for my line of work. They work very well but they also twist into a pretzel if the bolt is too tight. If the plugs have not been changed in many years, you will need to get your hands in there with a socket or you'll strip the sparkplug nut and then you'll have a real problem.

The other issue is that it might be easy to remove the plugs with that tool but you'll still have to get your hands in there to start the new spark plug threads so at that point, you could simply use a standard ratchet and socket.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 07-16-2023).]

Patrick JUL 16, 11:57 PM

I just use a short (3"?) extension and a 3/8" drive ratchet. I don't think I even bother with a universal. It's been awhile, I forget.

And yes, put anti-seize of the plugs to make the next plug check/change a whole lot easier!
Mike in Sydney JUL 17, 07:21 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


I just use a short (3"?) extension and a 3/8" drive ratchet. I don't think I even bother with a universal. It's been awhile, I forget.

And yes, put anti-seize of the plugs to make the next plug check/change a whole lot easier!



That's what I've done, Patrick. I've also changed them from below while the cr was on the lift.
olejoedad JUL 17, 07:50 AM
Remove the air duct to the throttle body.
Stand on driver side of car.
Use left arm to reach between firewall and engine.
Pull the front plug wires.
Use a pick to dislodge debris from around plug bases.
Blow out debris with compressed air.
Soak with penetrating oil.
Use the pick, air and penetrating oil again and again until plug well is free of debris.
Use a plug socket, short extension and short rachet to remove plugs.

Do not overtighten the new plugs.

The procedure works very well.

This is all done by feel, and it may help to close your eyes when reaching around the engine. (Seriously)

It's recommended to get the plug wells cleaned out and then soak the plugs with penetrating oil overnight.

Rounded plug bases and broken plugs are caused by an improperly seated socket due to debris buildup.

The plugs seal on an angled seat and not on the threads, so antiseize is not needed as the threads do not rust to the head.

Good luck and take your time.
theogre JUL 17, 08:31 AM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
They work very well but they also twist into a pretzel if the bolt is too tight.

Yup. Often don't work on hard to remove whatever.
flex 1/4 drive "nut driver" handle or as an extension also have same problem.

1. Many don't remove plugs in years have nearly "welded" plugs from "rust."
2. Many installing plugs on any motor over torque and causes big problems. Bad enough w/ iron heads, cause many strip holes on Alloy heads that often find out next time you change them.

Typically:
Cone head plugs only need ~ 1/8 Turn after tight by hand. Cone is sealing and "lock washer" to keep it tight sim to Tire Lug Cones.
Casket head plugs only need ~ 1/4 - 1/3 Turn after tight by hand. And that's assume you have New Plugs that need to crush the Casket a lot. When Reused them, often only ~ 1/8 Turn

Tight by hand means you turn the plug direct or turn socket/extension w/o a wrench. So Basically that Fraction of a Turn counts as soon as all slack in threads etc is gone.

Torque Spec (only 7-15 ft-lb for Fiero stock engines) often means nothing because most won't bother. May have a T-wrench but Most don't have that reads that low reliably or can fit in the space to use it. If tried, Spec is only Clean Dry threads and Anti-seize lubes the treads and void the spec.

And why "they" sell Plug Wrench w/ T-handles because don't need a lot of torque to install.

------------------
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Dennis LaGrua JUL 17, 12:25 PM
We've always done the plug replacement job by removing the dogbone and using an engine tilter to bring the engine back to open up space. We have the pro version but you might be able to make one.


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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 07-17-2023).]

Patrick JUL 17, 12:27 PM

quote
Originally posted by olejoedad:

The plugs seal on an angled seat and not on the threads, so antiseize is not needed as the threads do not rust to the head.



Joe, I'm surprised by your comment. So all those spark plugs we've seen here over the years that were... "stuck" in the heads... it isn't/wasn't due to corrosion?

I think I prefer to err on the side of caution, and will continue to apply anti-seize to any spark plugs I install.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 07-17-2023).]

ericjon262 JUL 17, 01:03 PM
I've tried those flex extensions a few times over the years, I've yet to have one be useful for anything but copious amounts of frustration.

as far as anti seize or no anti seize, the plugs are installed in cavities in the head, which can collect water and cause them to rust to the head. NGK specifically recommends against anti seize on spark plugs due to the possibility of over torquing the plugs and distorting them. regularly changed plugs should not seize in the heads, but it's also no impossible to run into issues, especially in wet or salty climates.

one of the better ideas is probably to protect the front head from water running off the front of the decklid, but that's easier said than done.

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Patrick JUL 17, 01:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

NGK specifically recommends against anti seize on spark plugs due to the possibility of over torquing the plugs and distorting them.



That's one advantage of using a 3/8" ratchet, especially in a confined area... it's pretty difficult to over torque the plugs!