1.4t manual swap (Page 1/2)
pizzaboy98 SEP 09, 11:41 PM
Hi, first time poster, long time reader. I have a Fiero (86 SE, 2.8 auto) but am looking for a cheap but unique swap focused on handling and drivability. More power would be nice but not necessary. That made me think of the relatively new 1.4t LE2 engine.

I know it’d be a challenge but the LE2 is becoming more common so sourcing one shouldn’t be the most difficult and there’s even a transverse 6 speed manual that came with the 1.4t in the second gen Cruze (M32)

I can machine, fabricate, and weld so custom mounts, exhaust, and possibly even axles are doable. The issues I can see are the clearance of the turbo and the firewall, splicing the clutch system from a manual Fiero into the M32, and getting such a modern ECU to tolerate being swapped into a different car. I wanted an outside opinion though, is this a good idea?

Sorry if this has been asked or actually done. I couldn’t find anything on this topic
IMSA GT SEP 10, 01:30 AM
I know nothing about smog or inspection rules in your state but if you can get away with it, I would say if you could use the drivetrain as well as the gauges from the donor car, you'd eliminate a lot of headaches for yourself.
pizzaboy98 SEP 10, 08:03 PM
I’d be registering it in VT so I think it just needs the emissions that came with the Fiero or equivalent, I think basically just a cat. Thank you, I just wanted to confirm that I wasn’t overthinking it.

I bought it as a daily driver but the engine died soon after. I can’t take on a project this big until I finish my apprenticeship so I end up just researching drivetrains on my lunch breaks and daydreaming during commutes.
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 12, 09:42 AM

quote
Originally posted by pizzaboy98:

I’d be registering it in VT so I think it just needs the emissions that came with the Fiero or equivalent, I think basically just a cat. Thank you, I just wanted to confirm that I wasn’t overthinking it.

I bought it as a daily driver but the engine died soon after. I can’t take on a project this big until I finish my apprenticeship so I end up just researching drivetrains on my lunch breaks and daydreaming during commutes.




Something to consider at least... the engine will weigh less, which will help the weight bias which isn't bad as it is... pretty close to 50/50... I think it's something like 47/53? But the engine you're choosing has less power than the stock Fiero. You're looking at having the performance between the 4cyl Fiero, and the V6 Fiero. I think the 1.4T puts out something like 140hp / 150lbs of torque. That's about the same horsepower, but you're going to lose at least 25 ft-lbs of torque. So just keep that in mind.

My opinion on any of these swaps... there are TWO things that are going to be your biggest issues:
- Fabricating motor mounts
- Getting custom driveshafts made
- Building a custom exhuast


EVERYTHING else is pretty simple, and what I mean by simple is... you can basically put in there whatever you want as long as it fits, and a 1.4T will absolutely fit. You'll have to do a couple of little things, like... find cooling hoses that fit, or handling wiring issues, etc... all that. But for the most part, as long as you have a donor vehicle which has EVERYTHING... then it's just taking from one car and putting on another. Only other thing I didn't mention is whether or not it's a manual transmission. With a manual, you'll have to adapt the shift pattern or install a different shifter, or whatever works for the combination. Less of an issue if it's an automatic.

My personal opinion, you may have an easier time looking for a 2L ecotec / Twin Cam / or Quad-4... particularly something that uses the newer 5-Speed Getrag. That way the driveshafts are standard Fiero driveshafts, and you just need to make a front motor mount. All the other stuff is just basic engine swap stuff... exhaust, cooling, wiring. There are enough aftermarket kits now for most motors that you can do this stuff pretty easily for engine management.


Definitely not hard if you take your time...
Vintage-Nut SEP 12, 10:10 AM
I live in California and Engine Swap Laws are Very Demanding and Strict!

Double check the engine swap laws in the state you want to register.........

------------------
Original Owner of a '88 GT and under 'Production Refurbishment'

pizzaboy98 SEP 17, 11:38 PM
That’s a good point about a doner car. It seems like it’s the same issues with any modern swap. You’re more body swapping a drivetrain than simply putting a different engine in a car. Not that that’s easy either

Yeah I’m not looking forward to welding the exhaust. Hopefully doing it near the end of the project will help. I have a bit of experience welding sheet metal but not quite as thin as most exhaust is. The mounts shouldn’t be too difficult. They’d take some planning and measuring but the actual building of them could be done after-hours at work. The driveshafts are probably going to be something I should just buy custom.

The 1.4t, or at least the LE2 makes a little more power than a 2.8. I’ve seen a estimates between 153 and 155hp and roughly 175lb-ft of tq. Not anything to be exited for but I don’t think I’ll be too worse off even if those numbers are a bit inflated.

I agree auto would be easier but I don’t think it’d be the safest. I actually drive an automatic Cruze with the 1.4t. That and the realization of how prevalent this engine is is actually what made me think of the potential swap. But while the automatic transmission suits this car well enough I don’t think it’d be great in a mid engine car. It has a slow reaction time and the turbo has a moderately high boost threshold. These combined make the car a little jerky. Kind of like a driving a manual for the first time. It’s ok for FWD but I’d be worried about losing traction on a curve if it was in a Fiero.

I should probably look into how easy it is to adapt a shifter though. A larger n/a Ecotec or HFV6 would be more predictable if I was going to go with automatic. Or there’s always the tried and true 3800sc.

With the legal side of things the only issue would be noise. Vermont doesn’t regulate engine swaps very much. As long as you can keep it relatively quiet there’s no state laws about it. You do have to still abide by the federal law though so I’d be keeping a cat.

[This message has been edited by pizzaboy98 (edited 09-17-2023).]

pizzaboy98 SEP 17, 11:55 PM
I think you’re right about a 2.0. Thinking about it, a wrecked Cobalt would probably be cheaper and easier to find with a manual than a Cruze. Even if it has the F35 I don’t think a scrapyard would charge much for an ecotec bellhousing F23.
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 18, 12:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by pizzaboy98:

I think you’re right about a 2.0. Thinking about it, a wrecked Cobalt would probably be cheaper and easier to find with a manual than a Cruze. Even if it has the F35 I don’t think a scrapyard would charge much for an ecotec bellhousing F23.




Just a couple of things on the manual transmission. If you decide that you want to swap in a manual transmission, you may be better off finding a car that already has a manual transmission in it. It could even be a 4-cyl car. This will make things a lot easier for you because the entire front of the car (wiring, master cyl, pedals, etc.), plus gear shift, will all already be done for you. There's a lot you'd need to swap over.

Now, I DID do this, but it's only because the car I was converting to a manual (my 1987 Fiero SE / V6) is a VERY special car to me. It was my first car... a car that I bought while I was in high school. I'm in my mid-40s now, so it made sense. I also had a donor car, which at the time, they were really plentiful... which was ALSO another 1987 Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed that had no title, and was missing both front and rear bumpers ... that car, which I stripped and cut up, was in ~2007. I kick myself now because the car was complete, and even though it had a rod thrown through the block, and the 5-Speed getrag was a little beat, it was a perfectly rust-free chassis. There was no rust, anywhere... and these are becoming rare.

Anyway, unless your 86 means a lot to you, you're better off just getting a manual transmission car so you don't have to source all those Fiero-specific parts. Otherwise, you'll want to buy a donor car and then convert over all the parts. Ideally though, whatever you take off your car, you can put back onto the other car so you're not taking a Fiero off the street.


But yes, if you get a 2.4 TwinCam setup from a Chevy Cavalier / Pontiac Sunfire, everything will literally just drop in, with the only issues being the front motor mount, and then the usual stuff. But the transmission will already work with the existing transmission mounts, etc.
pizzaboy98 SEP 18, 07:41 PM
That’s awesome you still have your first car, and that it’s one that’s fun to drive even more so. I don’t think many people can say that.

It would make sense just to get a manual and build from there but tying back to the lack of rust free frames, this is one. It was a californian car (according to the previous owner) and has been garaged since the engine died. There’s some surface rust but it’s likely in better shape than a lot of cars I could find here. It’s wet a lot of the year here and they salt the roads heavily. I’ve worked on a couple younger cars that were in much worse shape rust wise.

Sentimentally this car isn’t the most important thing in the world but I do like it. Maybe it’s just the sunk cost fallacy speaking but after trying to revive the dead engine and succeeding partially a few times, getting out and pushing when it died again, and having it towed several times, I’ve grown attached. Though the lack of structural rust is probably a bigger factor.

That pretty much means finding two doner cars if I understand correctly. I think you’re right about keeping it automatic then unless I can find a manual Fiero relatively easily and quickly. And I’d feel a bad not restoring that one to at least a rolling chassis with the automatic parts and reselling it so that’s adding even more work and difficulty to this project. This would be my first swap and I wouldn’t want it to be impossible.

Yeah if I did go with an older Ecotec or even Quad4 that’d probably lighten it a bit while still fulfilling the main criteria of getting the car running and reliable and I think with fewer gears in older transmissions even a slow automatic could be predictable. I’ve had no issues with the 3spd.

Then I have to go over the body panels, reupholster the seats, and whatever little things have to get done. This car was meant to be a running project lol. I still have time to figure out my options, a little less than a year until I’m finished apprenticing, and this is good information to consider. Thanks, it helps a lot to get an outside perspective
82-T/A [At Work] SEP 18, 08:39 PM

quote
Originally posted by pizzaboy98:

That’s awesome you still have your first car, and that it’s one that’s fun to drive even more so. I don’t think many people can say that.

It would make sense just to get a manual and build from there but tying back to the lack of rust free frames, this is one. It was a californian car (according to the previous owner) and has been garaged since the engine died. There’s some surface rust but it’s likely in better shape than a lot of cars I could find here. It’s wet a lot of the year here and they salt the roads heavily. I’ve worked on a couple younger cars that were in much worse shape rust wise.

Sentimentally this car isn’t the most important thing in the world but I do like it. Maybe it’s just the sunk cost fallacy speaking but after trying to revive the dead engine and succeeding partially a few times, getting out and pushing when it died again, and having it towed several times, I’ve grown attached. Though the lack of structural rust is probably a bigger factor.

That pretty much means finding two doner cars if I understand correctly. I think you’re right about keeping it automatic then unless I can find a manual Fiero relatively easily and quickly. And I’d feel a bad not restoring that one to at least a rolling chassis with the automatic parts and reselling it so that’s adding even more work and difficulty to this project. This would be my first swap and I wouldn’t want it to be impossible.

Yeah if I did go with an older Ecotec or even Quad4 that’d probably lighten it a bit while still fulfilling the main criteria of getting the car running and reliable and I think with fewer gears in older transmissions even a slow automatic could be predictable. I’ve had no issues with the 3spd.

Then I have to go over the body panels, reupholster the seats, and whatever little things have to get done. This car was meant to be a running project lol. I still have time to figure out my options, a little less than a year until I’m finished apprenticing, and this is good information to consider. Thanks, it helps a lot to get an outside perspective




Nah man, I totally get it. Especially being up in MA... if you have a California car, you're set. Really, you don't NEED a donor car, it just makes it easier. There's a lot of things you can skip if you're not that concerned about it... like you could just get the shifter, pedal assembly, and with the exception of some odds and ends (pushrod for the clutch master, etc.), everything else you would just buy new... like the clutch master cyl, even the new clutch lines (you can buy new ones from the Fiero Store). So I wouldn't worry about it too much. You'll just need to manually wire a few things, like the safety start for the clutch pedal, etc. And you won't have the manual-transmission-only steering column that has the little knob thingy that you have to push before you can take the key out, haha.


I had an LD9 2.4L TwinCam in a 97 Grand Am SE... and it was quick. The thing that was great about that motor is that it pulled hard in the upper RPMs. It didn't have a lot of torque, but you could really, really wind out the gears, and it loved it. Like, I would cross the intersection in first gear just cruising, and then nail it and wind it all the way out to almost 7,000 rpms. I think it was like 150hp / 160ft-lbs of torque. So... more or less the same as the stock V6, just that most of the power was in the mid to upper rpms, rather than idle to mid rpms like the Fiero. And it does weigh less...