Some random thoughts about headlights (Page 1/2)
bandi OCT 07, 05:35 PM
I purchased a 3.8 SC swapped '87 GT earlier this year, have it running and stopping now but the paint is in brutal condition, the taillights are cracked, the hood is damaged, etc, etc - and I already have another super pretty '87 GT! So I just bought a 308 kit, basically sight unseen aside from some marketplace photos - I'm sure nothing can possibly go wrong here, right?!

Anyway, I had a couple of thoughts. I'd like to convert the headlights to round ones and haven't really found anything conclusive on doing this (and I think a 6024 round headlight is a little bit higher than the 6054 a Fiero uses), so on that note- has anyone used linear actuators to eliminate the headlight motors?

Something like these: https://www.princessauto.co...product/PA1000001114
richard in nc OCT 07, 07:05 PM
you could make a plate with a round hole in the middle and paint it body color.
Patrick OCT 07, 07:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by bandi:

I just bought a 308 kit, basically sight unseen aside from some marketplace photos - I'm sure nothing can possibly go wrong here, right?!



If not already doing so, you need to be following This thread. You and smartaxel can compare notes!

I bet you didn't get a bonus frog!


quote
Originally posted by smartaxel Here:

Say hello to my little friend...lol

CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
theogre OCT 07, 10:25 PM
If anyone thinks OE popups are too high now, add several inches more height...

H6024 & related # are 7" round + bucket + aiming parts needs more ≥ 8" & can't open the door to clear that when On.
Unless you do major mods to frame, the space very likely won't take the taller bulb & needed hardware when Off.

While you can maybe pull door open a bit more when OE HL are On...
The load for this very likely going to break parts.

Quick Example: Door Springs & other hinge parts alone only expect to Open for the Shorter 6052 H6054 & related.

Linear actuators to eliminate the headlight motors for any reason is a lot harder then you think + few electric units can't open the doors fast as Gen2 setup, Well < 1 second, or even meet 3 second limit to meet FMVSS etc.

Gen2 control module will kill power when Full Open/Close or any other time the motor(s) draw power when jammed. + Timer Power Kill for other reasons.

see https://web.archive.org/web...cast.net/~fierocave/ Gen2 HL Motors.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

bandi OCT 08, 09:00 AM
I'm not too worried about re-engineering the headlight doors entirely, although it will be nice to actually see them and what hardware the kit uses in person to see what I'm getting into. As for headlight opening times, I'm not too worried as long as it's not a ten second "experience", I don't really foresee a cop waiting with a stopwatch to see if they meet FMVSS times for opening. I used some in a customer's 348ts road race car (headlights were a requirement for a 12h endurance event), and opening time is pretty much the same as a Fiero. (Used Ferrari units were about the cost of a nice project Fiero!).

I do have some gen 2 motors and modules kicking around also.
Spoon OCT 08, 01:55 PM
As far as time to raise headlights, you may consider the odds of having a middle of the night accident with serious injuries and the insurance company gets involved and just happens to notice a freshly modified headlight system. A very large "can of worms" comes to mind real fast!!

ps: You may consider re-rolling the dice.

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

theogre OCT 08, 11:31 PM
Isn't "just cops" to watch... CMVSS 108 is near total copy of US FMVSS 108 + whatever rules for your Provence for Inspection may mean door open/close too slow = Inspection Fail.

Many areas have other ways to have problems. Like many people install "hood scoops" then have cops/inspection problems because of height.
Many parts of 108 rules are hidden to most of public in SAE Standard Doc's that may restrict height of popup HL.

Also, Part of the bottom of the "storage" area is Structural for the rest of front like front bumper. Weaken that frame can cause big problems including affect front crush zone in a wreck. Very Minor damage that a normal car can take can "Totaled" the car when rust or bad mods weaken frame parts. In bigger wrecks, you &or passenger can be hurt or kill easier for same. Go watch Fiero Crash Test Videos @ YT. Those are before IIHS & NHTSA added offset & other crash testing.


quote
Originally posted by Spoon:
As far as time to raise headlights, you may consider the odds of having a middle of the night accident with serious injuries and the insurance company gets involved and just happens to notice a freshly modified headlight system. A very large "can of worms" comes to mind real fast!!

ps: You may consider re-rolling the dice.

HL mods or "upgrades" (often illegal for many reasons to start with) & more things can have huge problems there. Even your I-co can label many things as Insurance Fraud w/ Criminal Charges attach to that like when people do engine swaps & not reporting the change to big engine to keep lower rates.
bandi OCT 09, 10:26 AM
Thankfully I'm licensed to do my own inspection, and I still don't think anything would be in violation of CMVSS if done properly. I've built competition vehicles for manufacturers that still had to meet all safety requirements to be road legal for transit between rally stages, which later passed inspection in the US when sold/retired/etc. Okay, none had pop-ups aside from the 348 (which wasn't street legal) but yeah.

I do truly appreciate the concern about everyone's safety, but I wouldn't be modifying anything structural, I would not do something so ridiculous to add round headlights to a car but I think everyone is a little worked up about this. I'm not talking about slapping on some plywood headlight housings with some wood screws holding the headlights in, I'd like to properly engineer a housing which opens a little bit more than what the car did from factory, while maintaining factory headlight alignment specification, although using an H4 housing since they just work so much better than sealed beams. Also, in regards to the actuators, consider how long the headlights take to open on some cars with vacuum actuated headlights (Stingray, Olds Toronado, etc).

Sure, if I got into an accident at night, my insurance company could come after me from having different headlight actuators, but this incredibly unlikely, besides - absolutely everything on this car will be looking freshly modified when it hits the road. I'm not trying to be unreasonable or start an argument, but I didn't ask why I shouldn't do this, I just asked if it had been done. Should we post dire warnings on here to everyone installing coilovers and big brake kits? That's not how the car was engineered, and these are things that are far more likely to cause an accident if installed incorrectly. I'm sure an insurance company would be far less impressed if a brake component that didn't belong on a car from factory caused an accident.

Anyway, looking forward to sharing pics of this kit when I get it home on Tuesday. Hopefully it's not complete trash.
css9450 OCT 09, 11:11 AM

quote
Originally posted by bandi:

Should we post dire warnings on here to everyone installing coilovers and big brake kits?



You must be new here.
Vintage-Nut OCT 09, 11:48 AM
I guess you have too much time on your hands to "reinvent the wheel" and yes; some members can see it repeatedly in many categories.........

As a young man, I modified my vehicles allot!
As an older and wiser man, only on rare occasions.......

The bottom line - Have Fun and like you said, "nothing can possibly go wrong here, right?!"

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Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT
Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles