My car’s got the Winkie’s and I’m getting frustrated (Page 1/2)
Kitskaboodle JAN 08, 10:57 PM
85 GT
Upgraded to the 87-88 headlight system several years ago.
New pucks were installed, plastic gears were in great shape, fresh Mobil 1 grease, end play adjusted, etc.
Worked fine for about maybe a year but then it developed (and still has) an issue with the drivers side headlight not coming up. Manually opening the hood and then turning the motor knob about 2-3 turns does the trick and then it’ll come right up. I can tell the problem is that the shaft is getting very tight when the headlights are turned off. I already adjusted (loosened) the end play locknut and screw to the point now that the motor shaft has a little bit of up and down play but the motor shaft is still getting tight when the headlights close.
Why is the motor shaft getting tight?
How can I fix it?
Kit
theogre JAN 09, 12:12 AM

quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:
85 GT
Upgraded to the 87-88 headlight system several years ago.
New pucks were installed, plastic gears were in great shape, fresh Mobil 1 grease, end play adjusted, etc.
Worked fine for about maybe a year but then it developed (and still has) an issue with the drivers side headlight not coming up. Manually opening the hood and then turning the motor knob about 2-3 turns does the trick and then it’ll come right up. I can tell the problem is that the shaft is getting very tight when the headlights are turned off. I already adjusted (loosened) the end play locknut and screw to the point now that the motor shaft has a little bit of up and down play but the motor shaft is still getting tight when the headlights close.
1. Why is the motor shaft getting tight?
2. How can I fix it?

1. You did the Fix/Rebuild wrong like using M1 grease & RD et al Delrin Pins to start with. Plus "end play adjusted" wrong too &or Motor BB has problems.
2. Buy New Motors from Cardone or AZ w/ a warranty. or go cheap on eflay w/o a warranty.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

Vintage-Nut JAN 09, 09:01 AM

quote
Kitskaboodle:
Manually opening the hood and then turning the motor knob about 2-3 turns does the trick and then it’ll come right up.



Check-out this thread....

2nd gen headlight problems by Monkeyman
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/135374.html


quote
Originally posted by donuteater306:
When one (headlight) won't raise, I manually raise them a little bit by turning the crank, then turn the headlight switch on. They'll raise the rest of the way on their own. It's like, sometimes when they lower, the motors wind too tight.




quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
This is a low voltage, low amperage problem to the windings on the motor armature. It takes a lot more voltage/amperage to start an electric motor running than it takes to keep it running. Check things like grounds, corrosion on the connectors etc. Could be in the controller. Relay contacts might be degraded. Can't say I have seen anyone replace the relays in the controller yet. I'm sure it can be done. Bad connections to the motor brushes? Maybe a little of everything and it all adds up to a lot of additional resistance.

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Original Owner of a Silver '88 GT
Under 'Production Refurbishment' @ 136k Miles

steve308 JAN 09, 12:28 PM
New motors can be had cheap.
theogre JAN 09, 02:42 PM
Read the rest of the thread link & Ignore Any comment made by people thinking low volts/amps problem.
But
While have the HL lift(s) out for motor problems.... Check/Fix/Clean G101 and G102 bolted to car near both HL lifts. It doesn't affect this problems but will cause issues Rad Fan Motor operation, "dim" HL bulbs & more. "lube" the ends & sheet metal w/ silicone or permatex green label brake grease.

Seems already Read Gen2 motor in the cave that say ~ same. https://web.archive.org/web...cast.net/~fierocave/
But "end play adjusted" means little or even nothing if you didn't pull the "bolt" holding the bearing & do more first. Examples:
● Hard Bearing will "eat" the soft bolt face &/or has rust/dirt causing more load on the motor.
● Bearing have a "cup" in the motor shaft that must be checked/clean & lube.
Likely other things to know that bearing point but don't have old motor to look @ it like I Can't remember if motor tip has hidden plastic touching the BB that needs plastic safe lube.

⚠️ Warning: Using Delrin Pins from any source only means you will Break the gear etc later. See http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/128600.html 2nd Gen Headlight Pin Replacement
RD panic & ran away because can't handle truth about them for various reasons & other problems cause by RD over the years about business practice w/ some others. RD Did Not develop the Delrin pins but "copy" from Ecklers et al w/ solid pins to make them "stronger." (Ecklers & some others use Hollow Delrin pins.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 01-09-2024).]

Spoon JAN 09, 08:04 PM
I'm in theogre & steve308 corner. When new replacements are still available why not purchase a pair and call it a day. Your all done in less than an hour with new motors. This may be a stretch but think about replacing a camshaft without replacing the bearings.

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

Kitskaboodle JAN 09, 10:55 PM
Thanks for all the replies.
It has motivated me to simply buy new motors.
I didn’t realize how cheap new ones are.
However, I’m more than a little curious as to why kind of bumpers they use? Hopefully it won’t be like the original pucks as they eventually turn into grape nuts. ☹️
Any ideas on what they use?
Thanks, Kit
IMSA GT JAN 09, 11:42 PM
I wonder if these can be 3D printed in a way that allows them to be firm but compress and slip when needed.
Similar to the build of the airless car tire.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-09-2024).]

theogre JAN 09, 11:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:
However, I’m more than a little curious as to why kind of bumpers they use? Hopefully it won’t be like the original pucks as they eventually turn into grape nuts. ☹️
Any ideas on what they use?

They use same as GM.... TPU

If they fail, use the warranty or buy "Dorman" pins covered in replacement thread.

I had a jamming problem that broke the pins & didn't want to ship to return to get the warranty.
+ already had dorman pins to see how they fit etc but Delrin broke the old motor is why bought new motors.
So just use them on new Cardone motors as said in that page in ~ 1 hr total.

Just clean out the old pins & nothing else but some fresh brake grease on gear & output shaft.
Motor was only 5-8 years vs 35+ years on OE ones so didn't need much help.

Likely other "weak" plastic could be used too. LDPE ("♻️ 4") used for many Lids on Milk, take out soup, squeeze bottles, etc might work.
theogre JAN 10, 12:19 AM

quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:
I wonder if these can be 3D printed in a way that allows them to be firm but compress and slip when needed.
Similar to the build of the airless car tire.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

Unlikely because of space needed alone just to replace the pins.

Tweel shown won't work @ all to replace the gear & pins.

LDPE & some others doesn't need printing to replace TPU. Just simple mold(s) & clean controlled heat to melt it. Or find Rods about same size & cut new pins.
Some have tried "Hot Melt" Glue sticks but most are too soft or melt easy & hot weather + loads make that Fail. (Some likely got away w/ that because Many Types of HMG around w/ some are very hard when cold.)