2.5 Iron Duke / Removing Camshaft (Page 1/1)
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 26, 10:53 AM
Hey guys, I'm just about to take the engine to the machine shop. I think I have everything I need, including a new cam and cam bearings. But there's one last thing my daughter needs to remove from the engine before we can take it to the shop, and that's the camshaft. I'm kind of baffled. If I understand correctly... the camshaft SHOULD be removed from the FRONT of the engine, correct?

Just to iterate, this is a 1985 Fiero 2m4 SE with the 2.5 Iron Duke. It's an original roller-cam motor.

I can unscrew the two screws from the front which hold the cam shaft retaining bracket on (through the holes in the cam gear), but when I begin to pull the camshaft out, the rear-most cam surface gets stuck trying to pass through the center-most cam bearing surface. It appears that the center bearing surface is smaller than all the others. Does this seem correct? What am I doing wrong?


Thanks!!!
Stingray92 JAN 26, 11:16 AM
Haven't pulled one before but aren't the lobes a little larger than the bearing surface? I thought you had to rotate a little as you pull it out. Oil pump shaft removed? If you got the oil pan off you might be able to see what's stopping it.
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 26, 01:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by Stingray92:

Haven't pulled one before but aren't the lobes a little larger than the bearing surface? I thought you had to rotate a little as you pull it out. Oil pump shaft removed? If you got the oil pan off you might be able to see what's stopping it.




Yeah, the block is completely disassembled. There's nothing in / on it except the cam and cam gear. It's the only thing left on the engine. haha...

I'll check again tonight and see if I can pull it out and what's stopping it.


Thanks!


Which is another question... how much does the bare block weigh? I'm debating whether or not I can just lift it up myself and put it on a tarp in the back of my Explorer without having to use an engine hoist. I'm a big guy, and I have no problem lifting a fully assembled Th-350 transmission with Torque Converter... so if it's comparable, I'll do that. Just thought I'd ask before I have to bust out my engine hoist, etc...

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-26-2024).]

Stingray92 JAN 26, 07:32 PM
That is weird when you say the rear part of the cam is getting stuck on the center bearing. I checked my fsm and nothing special noted for the 84.

Regarding block weight it's iron which doesn't do well if dropped on anything. Sure it might look easy to just pick it up and move it but if you don't have as strong a helper use the lift.

Plenty of people have gotten hurt with back injuries and never fully recover.
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 26, 08:22 PM

quote
Originally posted by Stingray92:That is weird when you say the rear part of the cam is getting stuck on the center bearing. I checked my fsm and nothing special noted for the 84.

Regarding block weight it's iron which doesn't do well if dropped on anything. Sure it might look easy to just pick it up and move it but if you don't have as strong a helper use the lift.

Plenty of people have gotten hurt with back injuries and never fully recover.



I have to take a trip tomorrow morning, but I'll check it Sunday afternoon. But yeah, it was really weird to me. I'm trying to think of how it's even possible. It's like the bearings were undersized for the middle... but then that means the cam would have had to have been taken out from the back through the freeze plug. Hell if I know... maybe I just need to force it more.

I have a brand new cam, and I'll probably measure the journals... but I'm sure they're the same for all three of them.


I guess I don't need to be "too" careful though removing it if I'm going to be replacing the cam bearings and the camshaft anyway...
82-T/A [At Work] JAN 28, 01:49 PM
I got the cam out. Unfortunately, I had to use a sawzall... haha, just kidding.

You were right Stingray, it was just really, really tight. Which is probably not a bad thing. It slid out of the bearings easily, but once I tried to get the journals into the next set of bearings it was really tight. I was just afraid to force it before, but since I'm replacing the cam and the bearings, I wasn't too concerned. I was able to wiggle it enough and pull the cam through. I noticed that there was a slight ridge on the edge of the bearings which is what was making it difficult to get out.

Cam bearings didn't look too bad, to be honest... but I'm glad I'm replacing them anyway while I've got it out.


So the next question I have is... (thank you for the help)... the cam gear. I should have no problem removing the cam gear (not going to be a problem), but what is the process for reinstalling the new cam gear onto the new camshaft? I know I need to keep the retaining ring (that keeps the cam seated), and I know that I need to keep the cam "key."

But is there any particular way I can / should go about installing the cam gear without damaging it? Is this something I'd normally use a press for? Or is there a more "garage-way" of doing it? Edit: Found this... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/...0825-2-018751-2.html


EDIT: Also some good info on Ogre's Cave... ordering a new thrust washer and retaining bracket as well for the cam. I'm going to order a new cam timing gear set also as I see Cloyes has an aluminum one, and I ordered what looks like a fiber set.

EDIT #2: I see that Ogre mentions adding a harmonic balancer... but I don't see a part number. Is there one in particular that people use? I'm definitely down with getting a harmonic balancer as I know it'll help the engine and reduce vibration as well.


Thanks!

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-28-2024).]

theogre JAN 28, 08:25 PM

quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
EDIT #2: I see that Ogre mentions adding a harmonic balancer... but I don't see a part number. Is there one in particular that people use? I'm definitely down with getting a harmonic balancer as I know it'll help the engine and reduce vibration as well.

Because there is not one to fit 86 & older motors & tell you that in cam gear replacement cave page.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

82-T/A [At Work] JAN 29, 07:39 AM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Because there is not one to fit 86 & older motors & tell you that in cam gear replacement cave page.




I'm going to be picking up an 88 motor, and hoping to convert all the accessories over to the 87-88 accessories, if I can.
Modifying the brackets to work with the older intake is the easy part... the only thing I haven't worked out is the newer style A/C compressor (one requires the ECM, the older one does not). My intent is to convert to serpentine belts. I'm assuming though that the newer harmonic balancer will still work on the older crank?


I saw the part number for the DamperDudes at the end though... so thanks.

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 01-29-2024).]