Headlight Motors Not Going Up (Page 1/2)
jumpmonkey MAR 05, 08:02 PM
Context: Just purchased my first fiero after stalking Marketplace for one. A non-running garage find 85GT. I am an apprentice tech and full-time student at a technical school. My knowledge is still very limited. Currently focused on getting the engine running before I tackle any electrical issues. One of those electrical issues being the headlights not rising up.

Issue: Again, not fluent with Fieros and was unaware that the headlights could be manually raised by turning the knob. At least I believe that they can be manually raised by turning the knob? If it's the case, I didn't try that before leaving the car in my home town to go to school this week(Tech school is an hour from home). Since I didn't attempt to manually raise the headlights, I'm not sure if they will go down when using the switch. Meaning they neither go up or down. I only know that they don't go up. I will try to manually raise them when I'm back home this weekend.

If they don't go up or down, that would lead me to the isolation relay, TAIL-fuse, and possibly the headlight switch as possible issues. That's what I've gathered from Oliver Scholz' headlight troubleshooting guide.

However, the lights did illuminate. My question is if the lights come on but the motors don't operate, would that rule out the switch as a potential issue? Or is there a another connection in the switch that actives the motors separately from the lights? I'm trying to put together a good diagnostic list before I get back this weekend. I will also have a week for spring break to work on the car. Looking forward to that!

Thank you!

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Jumpmonkey

1985 Fiero GT MAR 05, 08:49 PM

quote
Originally posted by jumpmonkey:

Context: Just purchased my first fiero after stalking Marketplace for one. A non-running garage find 85GT. I am an apprentice tech and full-time student at a technical school. My knowledge is still very limited. Currently focused on getting the engine running before I tackle any electrical issues. One of those electrical issues being the headlights not rising up.

Issue: Again, not fluent with Fieros and was unaware that the headlights could be manually raised by turning the knob. At least I believe that they can be manually raised by turning the knob? If it's the case, I didn't try that before leaving the car in my home town to go to school this week(Tech school is an hour from home). Since I didn't attempt to manually raise the headlights, I'm not sure if they will go down when using the switch. Meaning they neither go up or down. I only know that they don't go up. I will try to manually raise them when I'm back home this weekend.

If they don't go up or down, that would lead me to the isolation relay, TAIL-fuse, and possibly the headlight switch as possible issues. That's what I've gathered from Oliver Scholz' headlight troubleshooting guide.

However, the lights did illuminate. My question is if the lights come on but the motors don't operate, would that rule out the switch as a potential issue? Or is there a another connection in the switch that actives the motors separately from the lights? I'm trying to put together a good diagnostic list before I get back this weekend. I will also have a week for spring break to work on the car. Looking forward to that!

Thank you!




You already seen very well versed in where to look for information, good for you, and welcome. I got my first car, 1985 GT, last April, it is an addicting fun hobby/money pit! The headlight switch has 3 on/off switches in it, headlights down, parking lights on, and headlights up/on, if the bulbs came on, the switch works. Definitely try turning the knob up/down, conceivably, if it was sitting a long time, the limit switches could have gotten "frozen" therefore not passing current to the motor, if the knobs are very easy to turn, it's likely electrical, one of the relays. There are 2 relays on each headlight that control the up function, and the signal wire for those comes from the isolation relay, then to the headlight switch. I'm not sure that the headlight up function is controlled by a fuse in the fuse box, down is, as are the parking lights, but I think headlights up, and the bulbs are fusible links (little sections of wire designed to melt) for the wires directly powering the headlight up function, there fusible links are in the frunk, 2 little red wires looped out of the wiring harness by the options code sticker. Another thing that is possible if it has sat a long long time, is the grease in the connectors could have gummed up and stopped the electrical connection, it is some thick stuff!
jumpmonkey MAR 05, 09:18 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:


You already seen very well versed in where to look for information, good for you, and welcome. I got my first car, 1985 GT, last April, it is an addicting fun hobby/money pit! The headlight switch has 3 on/off switches in it, headlights down, parking lights on, and headlights up/on, if the bulbs came on, the switch works. Definitely try turning the knob up/down, conceivably, if it was sitting a long time, the limit switches could have gotten "frozen" therefore not passing current to the motor, if the knobs are very easy to turn, it's likely electrical, one of the relays. There are 2 relays on each headlight that control the up function, and the signal wire for those comes from the isolation relay, then to the headlight switch. I'm not sure that the headlight up function is controlled by a fuse in the fuse box, down is, as are the parking lights, but I think headlights up, and the bulbs are fusible links (little sections of wire designed to melt) for the wires directly powering the headlight up function, there fusible links are in the frunk, 2 little red wires looped out of the wiring harness by the options code sticker. Another thing that is possible if it has sat a long long time, is the grease in the connectors could have gummed up and stopped the electrical connection, it is some thick stuff!



Thanks for the info. I will take a look at what you've pointed out and see what I find. I'll reply to the thread with any updates!
1985 Fiero GT MAR 05, 09:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by jumpmonkey:


Thanks for the info. I will take a look at what you've pointed out and see what I find. I'll reply to the thread with any updates!



Ok, great, just a heads up, a member named "the ogre" is bound to show up, recommending to switch to the gen 2 system, that the gen 1 system is bad, never works and is a money pit. While those points have truth to them, it is simplest and best to check your gen 1 motors, do a quick, cheap rebuild, rubber bumpers, and maybe the plastic gear if shredded, with replacement oe parts, and if they work, great, if they continue to have problems, out will be easier and likely better to buy or find the gen 2 system (it is all electronically controlled, no relays/limit switches to fail and kill other things with them) also, the ogre has that name for a reason, but does provide very good information, if a little picky/paranoid sometimes, you can find that information at "the ogre's cave", should be a link at the top or bottom of the Fiero forum.
1985 Fiero GT MAR 05, 09:33 PM
Also, before winding the headlights up manually, put the headlight switch into parking lights on/headlights off, that will turn off the signal to go up and down to the headlights (they will not try to do either), then once you wind them up, part or all the way, you can turn them on and/or off to see what they do, but when you have you have on the knob, it's best that it doesn't stay turning by itself without warning, which is why you turn on the parking lights.
jumpmonkey MAR 05, 09:42 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

Also, before winding the headlights up manually, put the headlight switch into parking lights on/headlights off, that will turn off the signal to go up and down to the headlights (they will not try to do either), then once you wind them up, part or all the way, you can turn them on and/or off to see what they do, but when you have you have on the knob, it's best that it doesn't stay turning by itself without warning, which is why you turn on the parking lights.



Ok. I'll make sure to have parking lights on/headlights off. Thanks for the heads up on the ogre. I thought I had been seeing a lot on just abandoning the Gen 1 headlights. Must've been the ogre himself.
1985 Fiero GT MAR 05, 10:00 PM

quote
Originally posted by jumpmonkey:


Ok. I'll make sure to have parking lights on/headlights off. Thanks for the heads up on the ogre. I thought I had been seeing a lot on just abandoning the Gen 1 headlights. Must've been the ogre himself.



Yeah the gen 1 system is not very good, especially all these years later, if you can find the parts for the gen 2 in a junkyard it is a good upgrade, and can be pretty easy too, but to buy the parts new, the controller thing is like $600, whereas a rebuild of the gen 1 (assuming the electrical is ok) is $40 to fix the common issues. The ogre is well meaning, and very knowledgeable, but can come off as gruff and irritated, especially to newer people.
Dukesterpro MAR 07, 11:12 AM
Gonna jump on this one since I am about as close to an expert on the headlight systems as someone can get. I don't always agree with Ogre, but I genuinely believe he is right. Dump the Gen 1 system and go Gen 2. Less points of failure with the gen 2 system.

Mike in Sydney MAR 07, 05:52 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:


Yeah the gen 1 system is not very good, especially all these years later, if you can find the parts for the gen 2 in a junkyard it is a good upgrade, and can be pretty easy too, but to buy the parts new, the controller thing is like $600, whereas a rebuild of the gen 1 (assuming the electrical is ok) is $40 to fix the common issues. The ogre is well meaning, and very knowledgeable, but can come off as gruff and irritated, especially to newer people.




Definitely, swap to a Gen 2 system. I did that on all 3 of my ‘86 cars.

I just ordered a replacement module as a spare from Zip Corvettes in Mechanicsville Va. It’s supposed to be a direct replacement for the GM unit. The cost was $159.00 plus tax & shipping.

I’m sure someone will have something to say because it isn’t GM but I will let everyone know how it works out.
jumpmonkey MAR 09, 02:48 PM

quote
Originally posted by 1985 Fiero GT:

Also, before winding the headlights up manually, put the headlight switch into parking lights on/headlights off, that will turn off the signal to go up and down to the headlights (they will not try to do either), then once you wind them up, part or all the way, you can turn them on and/or off to see what they do, but when you have you have on the knob, it's best that it doesn't stay turning by itself without warning, which is why you turn on the parking lights.



I finally tested out the headlights today. The driver side does operate but only when I press down on the knob. I can hear it try to work but it doesn't really move until I put pressure on the knob. If I don't keep the pressure on the way up, it won't rise all the way up. All I have to do is tap on the knob when the headlight switch is off and it will go right down. I read somewhere that might be the motor brushes not making contact? I remember reading a thread on this exact issue but could not find it!

The passenger side does not operate at all. It got cold here so I decided not to spend much time outside trying to figure out why/if it's not getting any power. I think the previous owner might have been messing around with it, too. There seems to be some non-factory wiring around it. I plan on looking into it tomorrow when it's not so frigid outside.