quote Originally posted by css9450: Did your car have a washer there previously? Mine didn't - it has the usual GM style drain plug bolt with integral hard plastic (or rubber?) seal permanently attached to it.

GM didn't use a "permanent" washer/seal there.

I think was a copper "crush" washer/seal sim to brake hose washer seals. In any case the washer/seal require to replace @ each oil change but many ignore & wonder why plug leaks &/or wreck the hole.

Many use Nylon like Dorman Nylon Rib Drain Plug Gasket https://www.dormanproducts....01377-097-118cd.aspx
Mainly because will crush to seal on many damage drain holes.

Example: My car had a narrow aluminum crush that doesn't cover the whole plug head that cone the hole so nothing else could seal except nylon like above or flat nylon.

Worse, many don't even have the right Plug that does damage to the hole too.
GM & more use this format plug to spread clamping force over wide area in the stamp steel pan. That is a "flange head bolt" not any type of washer on a bolt.

Is Not an OE plug just a format example. I don't have a spare or time to find a good pic of a "Fiero" oil plug.

You want a washer/seal that matches the flange area.

Many use a Magnetic plug but often they have problems sealing too.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

quote Originally posted by theogre: GM didn't use a "permanent" washer/seal there.

Every GM car I've ever had came with one of these. They had no washer.

EDIT: Do people actually replace that seal? Seems one would need a pick or something to get the old one out.

I've never had one leak.

[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 05-06-2024).]

[This message has been edited by css9450 (edited 05-06-2024).]

Found my OE Oil plug in a box w/ other old bolts... I kept it because many idiots to similar damage to oil drains...

But first people need to understand how the drain hole are made in most stamped pans...

The hole thru the pan you see is just that a simple hole.
Inside they spot welded a thicker metal stamped "nut" that will allow oil to go between the parts.
then outside you have some type of seal & the plug. (Not all use a "pilot" plug that make it easier to start the plug in after draining.)
When tight only the seal keeps oil in the pan.

If the seal is wrong or damage, often will leak & damage the pan too because morons think just need more Torque...
Seals Like this...

I think maybe was metal inner holding rubber outer but rubber torn off 30 years ago & never replace & morons smash the middle AND Pan metal to Cone Out a new shape & still leaked. Nearly rounded off the head to get that out.

They even tried RTV to seal @ some point as I cleaned it today to get a good pic & had a Booger stuck next to thread.

So 65274 metal/rubber gasket has the rubber in the damaged area & leaked. Other metal seals had similar problems.

I've tried Fiber "washers" too. Works but not as well as any Nylon.

This type of is also why Dorman & others make/made oversize plugs because fools way over torque the plug & strip the stamp nut. Once upon time I seen 2x even 3x oversize self-tapper plugs available to "fix" this & other types of oil pans. They still make various rubber plugs like dorman 090-932CD to replace plugs w/ strip holes but some don't last long.

Is only "luck" that the pan didn't strip out... look @ second pic where one section of thread look worse that all other... & don't mean just galling on three threads.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-06-2024).]