Transmission Removal Option? (Page 1/2)
Romsk NOV 10, 09:48 PM
Is it possible to remove a manual 5 speed transmission from a 1987 GT without removing the engine and having to lift the back end of the car up so high with a cherry picker?

It looks like I can just remove the driver side well skirt, remove the whole driver side rear suspension and strut tower, and remove the transmission from there.
That would be easier than removing the whole engine - which requires removing the C200 harness from inside the car too - among cables, hoses, assemblies, and more.

I can make a dolly to rest the transmission on to pull out and I can rig pieces of wood and such to help gide the transmission onto the dolly.

If this is possible, I would like to try it and not deal with a meanacing back end of the car up high on jack stands, jacks, and a cherry picker (which I don't have).

Thanks.

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Paul Romsky

1985 Fiero GT NOV 10, 10:20 PM
You have to lower the rear of the engine cradleae inches, that can easily be done with one hydraulic jack and 2 normal jack stands.

Jack rear up by cradle, support with stands on the safety stand points on the main frame ahead of the front cradle mounts, disconnect dogbone and any tight wiring/cables, revive left rear suspension, remove rear cradle bolts (rear of cradle still on hydraulic jack), lower rear of cradle (pivots on front cradle mounts) until you have enough room, support cradle/engine as needed, remove transmission.
fieroguru NOV 11, 07:03 AM
Back in 2005, I removed a getrag transmission in a rental house in Florida while on vacation with a floor jack, 2 jack stands, and some parts I purchased at home depot. It wasn't fun, but got the job done.

You need to start with supporting the engine in a manner that you can lower it down about 4". The cradle has to be lowered or removed, so you need to support the engine/transmission. In Fl I just used a piece of pipe, wood, long eye bolts and chains.

In 2017, I needed to swap in the 3.091 F40 and didn't want to drop the cradle. Since this was done at my shop, I went ahead and made a legit engine support bar setup with tabs and locking pins.

quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I lost a few hours today making this engine support bar in preparation of removing the transmission. The brackets on the side have a bolt that locks into a hole in the strut tower and there is a leg on the other end that rests on the upper frame rail. The cross bar bolts to these side brackets and once tight everything is locked into place. I wrapped several areas of the side brackets with 5 wraps of electrical tape to help reduce chances of scratching the paint.






Once you have the engine supported, you need to:
  • Remove the driver side suspension and axles.
  • Remove the driver side wheel well liner.
  • Loosen the passenger side suspension from the cradle and remove the axle.
  • Remove the exhaust.
  • Disconnect the engine and transmission mounts - likely need to remove the rear transmission mount completely.
  • Disconnect the coolant tube bracket from the transmission and pull and secure it out of your way.
  • Remove the cradle - in a pinch you can leave the front 2 bolts in and rock it down, but the car will need to be raised higher and the cradle will make things more awkward.
  • Disconnect the transmission cables, VSS and reverse light switch.
  • Lower the transmission side until the end of the case is about 1-2" lower than the driver side frame rail.
  • Remove the transmission to engine bolts.
  • Place a floor jack under the transmission to help support the weight (it will be 90+lbs)
  • Remove the transmission.


You will quickly see that with the wheel well, frame rail, and limited car elevation, it will be difficult to get a good body position to lift/support the transmission.
Removing the transmission is the easy part.

Reinstalling it is much harder:
The engine will be at an angle, so lifting/lining up the splines takes time, and 90 lb transmission is heavy to start, after a minute or two your arms will be jelly unless you can keep the transmission supported by wobbling around on a jack.

When I did this with my F40, I used a cherry picker to lower and lift the transmission from the top side with a chain.

Now that I am better setup for it, if all I needed was to remove the transmission, I would use this method every time.


Romsk NOV 11, 08:46 AM
Thanks to all that responded.

Fiero Guru, I like your idea best. I can make a support just like yours. Genius! Great instuctions.
Dennis LaGrua NOV 11, 11:01 AM

quote
Originally posted by Romsk:

Thanks to all that responded.

Fiero Guru, I like your idea best. I can make a support just like yours. Genius! Great instuctions.



Yes holding the engine in place with a support bar is the best idea but be advised that removing the transmission this way takes about the same time as if you had dropped the cradle w all. . The only thing you might save is the work to remove the harness from the ECM, the throttle cable and the cooling lines. We always dropped the cradle with the powertrain attached to replace the transmission , clutch or flywheel. We found that easier. For a first time attempt I would allow 6 hours of labor.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Romsk NOV 11, 11:32 AM
Fiero Guru,

Do I really have to lossen the passenger side suspension and pull out the axle from that side of the transmission? Won't the transmission just slide out from the axle? I could tie the axle up with some twine to prevent it from dropping too far once separated. If I don't have to loosen that side of the suspension, I can make a special/attachment tool that holds that axle/splines firmly and in perfect place for transmission re-install.

I am also going to make an articulated arm that moves/rotates on all 3 axes. Sort of like a big human hand/clamp that grips the transmission, then, with industrial stepper motors, I control it's fine positions as I work it back off/on the engine. A simple Arduino UNO, 3 high current Dual H-Bridge modlues, 3 Two-Pole Bi-Polar stepper motors (about $100 each), and some gearing.

So three homemade special tools:
Your Engine Support Bar that lowers the engine on the driver side a few inches after removing the Cradle. With hand crank and adjustable feet with thick rubber pads.
Articulated Transmission Removal/Installation Arm.
Passenger Side Axle Positioner Jig (only if I really don't need to play with the passenger side suspension).

I forgot about the exhaust, ok, it has to come off to remove the cradle (that is the only "minus" on this technique) but it makes sense. I have a custom stainless steel exhaust welded except at where it meets the two exhaust manifolds - so if I end up having to cut any part of it, I will abort this procedure - am NOT going to mess up the pro job they did. I am sure they used high quality high temperature bolts between the manifold and the exhaust y-pipe (header) - they can be cut off and replaced if they seized.

Lou's Custom Exhaust in Nashua New Hampsire did the job... pros all the way.

I don't have the money or headroom in my home garage for a lift, money is key here. Time is what I have, and making unique custom electro/mechanical tools is my speciality. My plan is to come up with the SAFEST, fastest, and easiest way to remove and reinstall the Manual Transmission for Clutch replacement in wide but low clearance garages. Local Fiero owners that can turn a wrench can come to me, I have everything's set up for the Clutch replacement (special tools and knowhow), they help me in the process, and I ask them for a very, very modest fee for my assistance - helps cover the NRE for the special tools.

Your thoughts?
Romsk NOV 11, 01:18 PM
Dennis LaGrua,

Time is not an issue for me, it's mostly safety. Lifting up the back so high will cause my wife some anxiety. The less "extreme" it is the better. I may still may to get under the car to remove the exhaust, but with good car ramps and a safety observer holding a phone and fire extinguisher, she should be fine with that.

Not having to remove Coolant Hoses... a big plus.
Not having to get inside and tear apart the armrest to remove the C200 cable... a big plus.
Not having to remove Throttle/Cruise Cables... a small plus.
Not having to remove fuel lines... a big plus.
Not having to remove Air Conditioner hoses a big plus, or Compressor... a plus.

The only minus for me is removing the exhaust.
Removing the driver's side rear suspension is a push. Still have to disconnect a brake line and Service Brake cable.
The less I am under the car the better. Even if it takes 8 hours the first time, I am OK with that. Helping others will get my time down.

With my 3 Axis Stepper Motor Controlled Articulated Transmission Arm it should be easy... I already started the design.

Thanks.
Thanks.
fieroguru NOV 11, 01:56 PM

quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:


Yes holding the engine in place with a support bar is the best idea but be advised that removing the transmission this way takes about the same time as if you had dropped the cradle w all. . The only thing you might save is the work to remove the harness from the ECM, the throttle cable and the cooling lines. We always dropped the cradle with the powertrain attached to replace the transmission , clutch or flywheel. We found that easier. For a first time attempt I would allow 6 hours of labor.




If you do it right, you will not need to bleed the brakes, refill and burp the coolant, disconnect/reconnect the fuel lines, disassemble/reassemble the interior, or take on other project while it is out.
Romsk NOV 11, 02:33 PM
Fiero Guru.

Thanks. Its a learning process. The main thing is to enlist a few hours of help from local Fiero owners (that work on them)! In return, I help them with theirs.

My Fiero GT ALDL Monitor GUI (free) and Adapter (cost plus shipping, no profit) is coming along. I have 6 users now, 1 in Switzerland. I am surprised no locals want a diagnostic tool praised by all my users. I add features all the time... the latest is an O2 Graph that shows In/Ott of Closed Loop , O2 Sensor Voltage, A/F Ratio, and Lambda - moving average as well as min/max.
fieroguru NOV 11, 02:53 PM

quote
Originally posted by Romsk:
Do I really have to lossen the passenger side suspension and pull out the axle from that side of the transmission? Won't the transmission just slide out from the axle? I could tie the axle up with some twine to prevent it from dropping too far once separated. If I don't have to loosen that side of the suspension, I can make a special/attachment tool that holds that axle/splines firmly and in perfect place for transmission re-install.



By loosen, I mean disconnect the knuckle from the cradle (it has to be done anyway to get the cradle far enough out of the way), and then remove the axle from the transmission.
I would leave the struts/knuckle and brakes attached to the car (you could include the axle with this hanging/tied back group).

On the driver side, I would remove the caliper w/o disconnecting the brake line (but do disconnect the parking brake cable). This will keep you from bleeding the brakes. Every time you remove a caliper brake line bolt you run the risk of a leak on reassembly and stripping the caliper threads if you over tighten.

The transmission is hard enough to get the splines and dowel pins aligned at the same time, adding an axle with its splines and snap ring into the mix isn't recommended. You want to get the transmission back installed, then mess with sliding in the axles.

When you make your support bar, it needs to be locked in place. I used 2 pre-existing holes in the strut tower and a bolt that sticks through them on the brackets. I have to assemble the bar in the car by placing the two end pieces into position (and into the holes), then attach the bar to them. Once the bar is attached to the side brackets, it can't move at all. Which is important when you will be wobbling and pushing on a 90+lb transmission to free it and reinstall.

In 2006 I gave my twin post lift to my brother when I relocated to KY. Everything I have done since then has been with a cherry picker, jack and jack stands. It would be really nice to have a lift again, but not having one hasn't stopped my progress.