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LS4 V8 DoD 4T65-E TAPShift swap underway (pics inside) (Page 1/39) |
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 12, 09:05 PM
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Donor motor, transmission, and related parts came out of a 2005 Grand Prix GXP courtesy of Ed Morad Parts Co. http://www.moradpartscompany.com http://stores.ebay.com/MORAD-PARTS-COMPANY
All of this will be going into a 1987 Fiero GT. The features that are planned to be included in the swap are:
-The transmission TAPShift function (steering wheel mounted shift paddles) -DoD (displacement on demand) function in the engine -And factory remote start / keyless entry / driver info center.
THE PLAN:
Phase 1 has been completed which was to port the cylinder heads in order to increase power output of the engine without sacrificing drivability or fuel economy. An aftermarket cam was considered as on option but no suitable affordable unit was available. Also the transmission has been gone thru (by TripleEdgePerformance: http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com ) in order to install a shift improver kit and various fixes for known bugs.
Phase 2 is the mechanical and electrical aspects of the engine/transmission swap. The plan is to complete this phase and get the engine running before I move on to Phase 3.
Phase 3 is to install the BCM, DIC, and other modules we got from the Grand Prix in to the Fiero to see how much of it I can get working without too much trouble. There is currently no programming software available that can reprogram the BCM to remove certain functions so I imagine I will have a lot of work to do in order to "fool" certain inputs and outputs in order to prevent warning messages from being displayed on the DIC.
A couple of things I have noticed about this engine is it shares a lot of the standard architecture with the LS1 series of engines, except for the bellhousing bolt pattern, starter mounting location, shorter crank, and more compact assy/belt drive setup. The transmission is actually going to create some issues because GM didn't cast in extra support in the area of the left rear mount -- probably because it wasn't used in the Grand Prix. I already have an idea of how to work around this issue so I can use my 4-corner mount system that doesn't require a dog-bone. Stock this powertrain only used 3 lower mounts (two on the pass side and one on the driver's side), which would require the use of a dog bone on the driver's side -- where no such provisions exist on the Fiero chassis. One of the goals I have for this swap is to modify the Fiero chassis as little as possible (if at all).
The front cover / water pump housing used on this engine is quite ingenious. All coolant connections are located in this cover as well as the fill point for the entire cooling system (the grand prix's radiator did not have a fill point on it). Below is a picture of the T-stat housing and all heater hose and radiator hose connections, which are located just behind and below the water pump.
On this engine the starter is mounted to the transmission which is unique. The transmission case has a special casting to accomodate this.
More pictures to follow. Other pictures and information on the LS4/4T65-E can be found on a page I dedicated to this powertrain on my website here:
http://www.gmtuners.com/LS4/index.htm
-ryan
------------------ power corrupts. absolute power corrupts absolutely. Custom Computer Tuning | Engine Conversions | Turbocharging | www.gmtuners.com[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 05-03-2010).]
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MstangsBware
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SEP 12, 10:03 PM
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Will be keeping an eye on this Thread, being I am slowy working on a 06 LS4/65E swap myself into my 88 GT. I havent gotten very far on the swap being I have had the motor/trans for 5 months and it is only half way mounted on the cradle. Looks like I am going almost the same route with my install but not including the DIC, remote start, ect. I have done alot of reading on the motor/trans and the wiring/PCM side of the swap and looks to be somewhat difficult but nothing that cant be done. I talked to several companies about the wiring/PCM part of the swap and looks like several can do it for a decent price but its not a full complete harness. Plus the same company can reprogram the PCM and from what they say the swap can be done without the BCM/Ignition key from donor and they program out the Passkey. This is only going off what I have talked with a few companies about so we will see. Then one company can make me a complete harness and do the PCM work for a decent price and it will be plug and play. Look forward to seeing progress on the swap.
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CTFieroGT87
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SEP 12, 11:02 PM
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Wow thats gonna be awesome if you get all those functions to work by integrating those controllers and the pedal. This info is gonna help a lot when I get around to putting in my 6.8L SBC!
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Erik
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SEP 12, 11:59 PM
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An Impala SS with the LS DOD raced me about 2 months ago ..they do get up and move ..I can just imagine what its gonna be like in a Fiero
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 13, 12:52 AM
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Here are some pictures of the auto trans flexplate (flywheel) and back of the block...
This flexplate does NOT have a counterbalance weight; but it does have the FWD torque converter bolt pattern (for the larger, 258mm converter like the 3800 SC engines use).
Here are some pics of the transmission, off the engine...
And the left rear mount area I mentioned earlier where GM didn't cast in extra beef because no mounts were used in this location on this case, in the cars it was put into... A few of the holes are not even tapped or drilled all the way either.
One of the things I was doing today was machining out some sleeves so they could accept the 84-87 Fiero engine cradle rubber mount bushings that I am using for my motor mounts.
Since I had use of the neighbor's lathe all day I went ahead and knocked a few out. I also went ahead and made some aluminum inserts for mock-up when I weld everything together. The rubber cradle bushings have an interference fit to these sleeves so they have to be pressed in. And I can't weld on these sleeves with bushings in them; so that's where the aluminum inserts come in.
-ryan
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 13, 01:05 AM
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darkhorizon
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SEP 13, 01:08 AM
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O ryan, you and your slick motor mounts, I might try them on my next swap coming up in 2 weeks.
This ls4 swap seems like a whole barrel of fun, My hardware is not far off of being able to tune those ls4 pcm's, so Ill keep you updated there.
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Darth Fiero
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SEP 13, 01:17 AM
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The factory head gaskets are 3 layers (aka: multi layer steel, or MLS) and are coated with a black sealing agent in key areas. Obviously new factory gaskets were used, and the head bolts that are used on this engine are torque to yeild, so those had to be replaced as well. The LS4 uses ten - 11mm x 2.0 thread pitch bolts around the cylinders and five - 8mm x 1.25 bolts along the lifter valley per head. The 11mm bolts get torqed to 22 ft/lbs in sequence, then 90 deg turn each in sequence, then an additional 70 degrees in sequence for the final pass. Then the 8mm bolts get torqued to 22 ft/lbs from the center out.
Pics of the engine reassembled...
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Joseph Upson
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SEP 13, 06:43 AM
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quote | Originally posted by Darth Fiero:
The front cover / water pump housing used on this engine is quite ingenious. All coolant connections are located in this cover as well as the fill point for the entire cooling system (the grand prix's radiator did not have a fill point on it). Below is a picture of the T-stat housing and all heater hose and radiator hose connections, which are located just behind and below the water pump.
More pictures to follow. Other pictures and information on the LS4/4T65-E can be found on a page I dedicated to this powertrain on my website here:
http://www.gmtuners.com/LS4/index.htm
-ryan
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Where did you get your information on the coolant flow? It looks like the coolant would flow in the opposite direction since the thermostat housing appears to be located centrally at the back of the pump. I was confused for a moment with the 3900 coolant flow since the thermostat is located in the same area as shown in your picture however, the filler neck and crossover mounted at the end of the heads up high suggested that despite the thermostat location it is the inlet point for coolant.
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FIEROPHREK
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SEP 13, 12:32 PM
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Hey Joe you always want your coolant to flow out of the T-stat. If cool coolant flowed past it, it would stay closed all the time. If Darth doesn't want to rip that water pump off and post pics i can disassemble mine and post some pics. Keep the pic coming ------------------
ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
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