NS F355 Project (Page 1/73)
Yarmouth Fiero JUN 24, 10:59 AM
On a prompt from a very experienced and knowledgeable PFF member, I have decided to start a post on a project that has been 20+ years on the shelf.

History:
Bought an 85 Fiero off the showroom floor fall of '85 at Bonnyman Pontiac. It was the only one they had in stock. It was red with grey cloth interior, 4cyl, 5 speed manual. Nothing fancy but it caught my eye so I plunked down $16,000 cash and waited all day for them to prep it for sale. Took the typical lumps from my friends about my new plastic car. But man, it was a fun ride. Drove it for 2 summers all over Canada and eastern states with my new girlfriend (now wife). Stored it during the winters while I sailed the world on oil tankers.

Fast forward to 2012 and 3 kids, two homes, 2 dogs, 7 years of university, a couple jobs and its time to start what I always knew in my heart was coming, my little red Fiero was going to change its looks and its performance..... in a big way.

I had been following the various Kit car magazines over the years, sketched out some ideas, jotted down my thoughts, all the while, keeping the dust off my furure project. The engine went in an S-10, various body parts went out the door, the interior went in the attic for future use, probably all too familiar to many of you.

Then I recently stumbled on PFF and a whole new world of information and possibilities came into view. Together with my 2 sons, we have been reading and researching as much information as possible. We have a good idea of what we want as an end product but very little knowledge and experience about how to get there. I've also had the incredible fortune to meet in person, fellow Fiero enthusiast Bloozberry who is one of the few local PFF participants. There is suddenly a very bright light at the end of that long-g-g-g-g project tunnel. So here I go. Our dream car will hopefully include the following:

An F355 Spyder style body
A total suspension, brake and performance upgrade
A well engineered structural upgrade for the stretched spyder chassis
A mild SBC with 250+ hp and the original 5 speed gearbox
A killer paint job ( boys and I are still doing the rock, paper, scissors, spock to decide on red or yellow)

I've included a picture of a sketch I did, I think before the boys were even born. What the spiders and moths haven't eaten is still hanging over the work bench.

With my very brief time here on PFF so far, I have already had several helpful comments regarding our project from fellow PFF members and I am looking forward to much more input over the next few years. I'll try my hardest to keep everyone up to date on the progress and include pictures where ever possible.

So here I go with a mint 85 Fiero chassis, a somewhat clean workspace and two teenagers who are seriously pumped about one day driving their finished car through town. I suspect when its all done, we'll be building a second car just to keep the peace.

Sincerely

Yarmouth Fiero
IFLYR22 JUN 24, 12:10 PM
Beautiful!
Will be watching this!

What is your projected time frame for completion?

Have you settled on a specific suspension and brake upgrade route?

I have been working on a complete redo of an old car myself. It looks like I may have it done sometime next year, after 4 years of work so far.

-Dave
Bloozberry JUN 24, 12:48 PM
One of the funny stories Yarmouth Fiero related to me yesterday during his visit was that to keep the family pressure to sell the car manageable over all these years, he's been parting it out to make it less attractive. Who'd want to buy an old Fiero skeleton? Looks like the strategy worked. The pressure must have been mounting again though because he recently cut it in half! (look closely, you'll see the frame extension in the works).

I'm subscribed.
Yarmouth Fiero JUN 24, 01:35 PM
Thanks IFLYR22. I hear alot of positive comments about the HT suspension and brake upgrades so I may lean in that direction. I guess the first thing is to nail down the wide body requirements of the 355. But I like that they work with you on your specific requirements and also offer a range of options to suit your budget and goals. But I'm always open to suggestions on other suitable suppliers.

With regard to time line, I would like to have it completely done 4 years max so that my youngest son who's building it with me can drive his prom date in style. Realistically, he may end up driving his prom date is a modified Fiero without a complete and painted body. I hope his future date has a good sense of humour.

I have a ton of stories Blooz and I'm sure we'll share them over the next few years. The engine was the first to go. I was in 2nd year of my engineering degree, the house needed a new roof, my daughter was wondering why mommy was so mad... " she'll be ok honey...please just hold the wrench so we can get this engine off the cradle and out the door. The nice boy next door needs it for his truck". The most recent frame cut was in response to that familiar " when are you going to get rid of that useless fame and make room for the family van?". If I don't start buring wire soon, I may be moving closer Blooz

[img]http://images.fieroforum.com/2012/IMG_0033.JPG
Yarmouth Fiero JUN 24, 01:45 PM
Oops. Still learning how to post pictures properly. Here is a picture of my daughter and I preping the engine for the S-10 for the nice boy next door. She's off to college this year. Talk about a project taking generations to complete

edit: removed photo of family member

[This message has been edited by Yarmouth Fiero (edited 02-23-2015).]

IFLYR22 JUN 24, 05:46 PM

quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

One of the funny stories Yarmouth Fiero related to me yesterday during his visit was that to keep the family pressure to sell the car manageable over all these years, he's been parting it out to make it less attractive. Who'd want to buy an old Fiero skeleton? Looks like the strategy worked. The pressure must have been mounting again though because he recently cut it in half! (look closely, you'll see the frame extension in the works).

I'm subscribed.



Ha ha... brilliance!

I have had the Ryan/Held/HT/Westshore fabricators suspension and brakes on mine since 2000/2001. Have not had any real complaints, just some annoyances.

-Dave
Yarmouth Fiero JUN 24, 07:10 PM
I'm a big fan of "one stop shopping" where possible but as we are going to upgrade so many things, it may not be possible. I ordered a set of sway bars from the Fiero Store just to get a "feel" for the shipping / customs charges as well as the reception to shipping to Canada and paying with Canadian funny money. It went very well and while the extra charges to get across the boarder are not insignificant, I was very happy with the service and quick delivery.
Yarmouth Fiero JUL 02, 02:51 PM
Chassis reinforcement for my 355 Spyder

There does not seem to be any end to the online discussion regarding the proper reinforcement of a Fiero chassis for a 355 Spyder. There appears to be as many opinions as there are Fieros, which makes sense I guess. Reading through old build threads, it seems the discussions always center around a few key topics:

1. X frame or no X frame
2. How to properly tie in the reinforcements to the existing longintudinal frames to counteract sagging
3. How to reinforce the chassis transversely to counteract twisting

While many of the threads failed to come to any kind of census, one common theme appeared.......

DO NOT CUT THE ROOF OFF UNTIL AFTER ALL THE REINFORCEMNTS ARE DONE.

It seems that in the end, most of the people who undertook the challenge and went through with the chassis upgrades, seem to be happy with their individual results, although there are a few that state they regrete doing it. As the topic seemed to reach a climax around 2003 ( based on dates of old build threads), I would be curious to see how the various modification styles are holding up almost 10 years later.

Regardless, I will continue to forge ahead with my plans to build a 355 Spyder and "borrow" as many ideas from previous builders as I can. To date, I have the rear section of my 85 chassis separated from the forward section and moved back out of the way for now. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am doing a 3" chassis stretch as well so having the back half out of the way during the chassis reinforcement provides lots of working room.

I hope my next comment does not open up old wounds from threads a decade old, but I will not be installing the infamous X frame under my chassis. Apart from the fact that I will be needing all the ground clearance I can get because Nova Scotia roads suck for the most part, I just don't see the benifits to adding that much structure and weight down low in the horizontal plane of the car. That is all I will say on that matter.

One thing I did notice in many of the old threads on this topic is that many builders ( not all) used relatively small structural shapes for the main reinforcement, ie 1" x 1", 1" x 2" or they went very heavy on plate thickness, ie 3/8" plate. I'm not sure but I think this is because many of the reinforcements did not including removing the existing rocker frames. Since the 355 body is quite wide compared to the original Fiero chassis, especially in the rocker panel area, I have decided to go big...... I'm talking 3" x 5" square structural tubing, laying on its side and removing the existing rocker frames. The existing rocker frame flanges will remain as they will provide something substantial to weld the new frames to. I should be more specific and say that I will be using two structures welded together to give a final dimension of 3" x 5". I will use a 3" x 3" and a 2" x 3". The reason is that once they are welded together, they will provide the structural shape and dimensions I desire plus have a substantial double thickness vertical web down the length of the tubes. This will increase the tube stiffness substantially and allow me to use a thinner wall thickness without worrying about the tube collapsing in the middle when loaded up.

This 3" x 5" frame will form the new rocker frame and connect the A pillar and the B pillar. At this time I will only talk about the B pillar. I want to retain the existing B pillar as much as possible in the area of the door jam so the 3" x 5" will rise vertically at the position and angle of the firewall.




Since I am only mocking this up with cardboard at the moment, I did not cut into the existing B pillar, however, the 3" x 5" tube will pass through the existing sheelmetal and get fastened in place using an appropriate technique. The 3" x 5" tube will be capped when finished. The next picture shows how the top of the 3" x 5" tube will tie into the top longitudinal frame and an extension plate on the lower end of the 3" x 5" tube will tie into the lower longitudinal frame.



The next item of business is to reinforce the firewall as this seemed to be a key issue for many builders before me. As I don't want any new structure to infringe on the cab, I have decided to use a triangulated truss using 1" x 1 1/2" square tubing on the engine compartment side of the firewall. While this structure is relatively small in section, having it triangulate as well as tie into all 4 longitudinal fames should provide adequate stffening to the firewall. When the car is finished, the 1" thick frames should be hidden by a heat reflective insulation blanket. On a side note, I haven't removed my rear window yet as it adds additional support to the car until the reinforcements are completed. However, there does appear to be a sheet metal tube under the window that connects the two upper longitudinal frame rails. After the window is removed, I'll evaluate this frame and see if its worth upgrading as it will form the top of the triangulated truss.



So I think I have covered most of the bases with regard to the rocker frame, B pillar and firewall. The next order of business is to work on the connection of the rocker frame to the A pillar. This will be more difficult as the 5" rocker must transition down to a much narrower A pillar. My goal here is to keep the stock locations for the two door hinge mounting points. There has also been much discussion regarding the need to tie the reinforcements to the front cross member. However, I don't see how this can be accomplished and also, what is to be gained by this modification.

I look forward to hearing from members who have gone through this process and I welcome suggestions, comments and chuckles.

As well, I'm not sure how this thread gets moved to the Construction Zone, whether its by votes or comments from those of you following my thread. However, I sure hope I get moved out of the Technical Section soon as a few days of no bumps and you find yourself back on page 6
Bloozberry JUL 02, 08:21 PM
Nothing like diving in with both feet! The cardboard mock ups are a great way to visualize how it's all going to interconnect even before you turn on the welder. One of the nice things about getting away from the stock body is the extra room for things like the chassis mods you're planning. The F355 is so much wider than stock that you can get away with hiding these members quite well, and the three inch frame stretch gives you the room behind the firewall to do some stiffening too.

A couple things to note:

- those B pillar extensions that extend to the new rockers will block the door scoops... that's no biggie if you're not planning to use them to feed air in the engine bay or through relocated radiators;

- I'm not sure if you're done massaging the tops of those B pillar extensions or not but you won't be abble to leave them squared off and jutting out like that... while the overall F355 body is 6" wider than the Fiero, it's about the same width as the Fiero at the door tops, and bulges outward from there;

- I agree with you about not tying in the reinforcements to the front crossmember... I can't see how that would work either;

- As for getting your thread in the Construction Zone, check out the first two posts in the list at the top of the Zone. One of them is "Posting Rules" and the other is "About: The Construction Zone". All you need to know about how to get this thread moved into the CZ is there. Basically you have to tough it out in another area first until you've shown you're sticking around and in it for the long haul.
Yarmouth Fiero JUL 02, 08:43 PM
Thanks for the great comments Blooz. I agree that the 355 does offer enough room that all the chassis mods can be easily hidden from view. I was reading a 355 build thread elsewhere and the builder has added some significant steel work from the roof to the aft end on the engine bay and it all appears to get hidden from view by the bodywork.

With regard to the door side scoops, I thought I had measured atleast +5" of clearance between the inner edge of the rocker scoop and the inner edge of the door sill so I assumed the door scoop would have the clearance. My 3" x 5" vertical frame is only about 1/2" outboard of the original B pillar frame at its widest point. I do want the option to have additional rads or at least a good sized air intake for the SBC. I'll take a picture shortly and post it.

After I posted the pics I realized that the tops of the B pillars would have to be cut down to allow the body curves to sweep past them. Do they make cardboard cutting blades for a recip saw? ha-ha-ha

I'll keep posting to the TD & Q for now and hopefully Mr Pennock will smile on me. Perhaps a box of fresh Yarmouth lobster or Digby scallops would help my cause