The evidence against anthropogenic global warming (Page 1/600)
fierobear JUN 07, 02:13 PM
I'm sure you've heard the statements that "the debate is over" or "the science is settled" on anthropogenic (man-caused) global warming (AGW). The IPCC, the international body that is pushing for worldwide action against AGW, and politicians are trying to convince you that the issue is settled. Al Gore and the news media are hyping this as a worldwide disaster in the making, that drastic action must be taken "NOW!" or it will be too late. Lost in all of this is the fact that science is NEVER settled, and that debate should NEVER stop. Even worse is the idea that science can be decided by vote - referring to this nonsense about "scientific consensus" and "2000 scientists agree" and so on. Consensus is *meaningless* in science. It only takes *one* scientist with a viable theory (that can be tested and proven) to overturn an entire branch of science. The number of scientists doesn't matter, only what can be reasonably proven.

In this thread, I will be posting the evidence *against* man-made global warming. I will stick mostly to scientific papers and sources, although I will occasionally post articles from the news media, or even blogs, on the subject. However, I will try to stick to articles and blogs that cite scientific sources whenever possible. This is about valid proof, not hype, not bullshit.

I'll start with a couple of good links for those who wish to do their own reading and research. And I'd encourage you to do so. Don't believe me, don't believe everything you hear, do your own reading and make up your *own* minds.

First is a site with 100s of links to articles, videos and peer-reviewed scientific papers:
http://z4.invisionfree.com/...x.php?showtopic=2050

Second is the Heartland Institute. Some will complain that the site is conservative-oriented, however they recently sponsored a conference for scientists to present their case on global warming, and most talks were against the idea that man's CO2 emissions are causing or will cause catastrophic climate change scenarios.

This link gives general info on the conference: http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/newyork08.cfm
This link is to the list of speakers and the subjects they covered: http://www.heartland.org/NewYork08/proceedings.cfm
On the right side of the page, there are audio and video links to the scientists' talks. Some of the talks have powerpoint presentations that you can download. I'd suggest listening to the audio or video, and following along with the powerpoint slides.

If you'd like to read about the problems with the so called "hockey stick graph", a good place to start is http://www.climateaudit.org/
You can find *scientific* discussion of a number of components of the AGW theory by subject, on the left side of the page. The site's owner, Steve McIntyre, is the one who found the statistical problems with the hockey stick. He found that it was terribly biased, in that you can plug any numbers you want into it, and you will get the famous hockey stick shaped graph.

That's a good start. I'll have a LOT more info to come, and it will be primarily real science, not biased reporting, not media hype (although I will post stuff that exposes the hype).

[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 06-07-2008).]

randye JUN 07, 02:50 PM

http://schnittshow.newsradi...m/globalwarming.html
heybjorn JUN 07, 03:00 PM
Thank you both for the references. This is quite a bit to work through. It certainly is interesting.
Formula88 JUN 07, 03:04 PM
I think what most people don't look at is correlation is not causation. And any global warming is not necessarily man made.
Unfortunately the argument has taken on almost religious zeal with most people. It's very difficult to have a calm rational discussion about it.

Considering Mt. St. Helens' eruption spewed out more carbon in that one event than the entire history of industrialized mankind - I'm not really concerned about my personal carbon footprint.

It's akin to saying sea levels are rising because of boats and swimmers in the oceans. Sure, physics tells us for every man made object we put in the ocean the global sea levels will rise. So should we have a global crusade to keep all people and man made objects out of the water for fear of flooding the earth? Many of the global warming arguments sound very similar.
Pyrthian JUN 07, 03:05 PM
well, my 2 contributions to this:

1> how the heck did it happen last time (and the 3 previous times) - when there was no people burning stuff? especially on such a predictable schedule. almost like a cycle which comes and goes....

2> the "hockey stick" - if you follow all the graphs & info which created the "hockey stick" - especially the graphs which have BOTH the CO2 & avg. temps - you will see the ugly fact that we should be DEAD ALREADY. we should have had "scorched earth" by the 1990's.


and another thing - we are not saying we dont beleive in global warming. its is 100% fact. it happened before - it will happen again. and - we are also not saying "pollution is OK" - noone is "for" pollution. CO2 is NOT pollution. it is the most important gas on earth. CO2 is what "feeds" the food chain. without it - EVERYTHING dies. CO2, H20 & sunshine - what makes life possible here on earth. carbon footprint? bwahahaha - you are a carbon based lifeform, are you not? get yourself some diamond laofers - and make a real impressive carbon footprint. diamonds are carbon after all. carbon is good.
Tha Driver JUN 07, 04:29 PM
All I have to say is: It dosen't matter what the cause is. If we're producing pollution & yes also Co2, & that adds to global warming, shouldn't we do what we can to reduce it? Even if - no: ESPECIALLY if - the earth is going through a natural global warming period?
Yeah Co2 is good stuff, but TOO MUCH of anything is bad! Every time you take a sip of alcohol (or milk, or whatever), do you make sure to drink several gallons?
You are all just making excuses to forget about how much you pollute, & how much you contribute to our dependence on forien oil. The fact is you just don't give a flying duck about anyone but yourself. The more gas you burn, the higher the price will be. The only ones suffering from it are the poor. But since you're making 50 grand + a year you just don't care. Be honest: how many of you that are "pro global warming" & "pro gas guzzling" make less than 50 grand?
Paul
Toddster JUN 07, 04:43 PM
CO2 in atmosphere of Venus = 965,000 parts per million; Average Temp = 864 Degrees F

CO2 in atmosphere of Mars = 953,000 parts per million; Average Temp = - 67 Degrees F

CO2 in atmosphere of Earth = 330-380 parts per million (seasonal); Average Temp = 59 Degrees F

To all Global Warming advocates, I have some nice swamp land for sale in Florida...let's talk.
Formula88 JUN 07, 04:43 PM

quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

All I have to say is: It dosen't matter what the cause is. If we're producing pollution & yes also Co2, & that adds to global warming, shouldn't we do what we can to reduce it? Even if - no: ESPECIALLY if - the earth is going through a natural global warming period?



Serious question:
Do you also believe we should keep people from swimming in the ocean to prevent flooding? We do know people jumping in the ocean adds to the sea level. Shouldn't we do what we can to reduce it?
Pyrthian JUN 07, 05:06 PM

quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

All I have to say is: It dosen't matter what the cause is. If we're producing pollution & yes also Co2, & that adds to global warming, shouldn't we do what we can to reduce it? Even if - no: ESPECIALLY if - the earth is going through a natural global warming period?
Yeah Co2 is good stuff, but TOO MUCH of anything is bad! Every time you take a sip of alcohol (or milk, or whatever), do you make sure to drink several gallons?
You are all just making excuses to forget about how much you pollute, & how much you contribute to our dependence on forien oil. The fact is you just don't give a flying duck about anyone but yourself. The more gas you burn, the higher the price will be. The only ones suffering from it are the poor. But since you're making 50 grand + a year you just don't care. Be honest: how many of you that are "pro global warming" & "pro gas guzzling" make less than 50 grand?
Paul



not one person here is "for" pollution. just because we dont believe in wall-less green houses - does not mean we are driving down the road in '72 caddy's getting 5mpg. I am sure everyone here would like to burn as little fuel as possible. and, how did "the poor" get thrown into this? you are trying to dump way to much extra baggage on something very simple.

again - not one person here is saying "screw green". not one person is saying "set everything aflame". no one is "making excuses" for anything.

notice how everything you thrown out is emotional and made to tug heart strings? the punishment for pollution, the suffering of the poor, the excuse making of the rich....

much reminds of "the churches" tactic: better to hope for heavan and be right, than not beleive and be wrong.

but - that same arrogance applies here too. to actually beleive that - if you actually ARE right, and we are causing global warming - that there is something that could be done to stop it. you'd have better luck de-railing a train with a penny. do you actually have a clue on how CO2 must be removed? do you have a clue how much CO2 is created naturly? do you have a clue on how much CO2 is removed naturly? but we should try, gosh darn it, we should try. we could kill everyone. nope. still not enough. and...the rotting corspes give of green house gasses too....

thats right boys and girls - even with no humans left on earth - completely vacuumed off, and deposited somewhere else - there would still be to much CO2. so - what do you suggest?
fierobear JUN 07, 05:08 PM

quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:

All I have to say is: It dosen't matter what the cause is. If we're producing pollution & yes also Co2, & that adds to global warming, shouldn't we do what we can to reduce it? Even if - no: ESPECIALLY if - the earth is going through a natural global warming period?
Yeah Co2 is good stuff, but TOO MUCH of anything is bad! Every time you take a sip of alcohol (or milk, or whatever), do you make sure to drink several gallons?



But the real question is - HOW MUCH warming is a result from Man's CO2 contribution. Answer - an insignificant amount. I'll find some info to post on this later (I'm busy today). Look at it this way - if you pee in Lake Michigan, does it raise the water level? Yes. How much? An insignificant (and basically immeasurable) amount.

As for "too much CO2", how much would be too much? Double current levels? That's what the IPCC is talking about. Doubling current levels of CO2 would *not* cause harm to plants or our breathing. How much warming would it add? *Maybe* one degree C. That's not enough to cause major ecological disasters.


quote
You are all just making excuses to forget about how much you pollute, & how much you contribute to our dependence on forien oil. The fact is you just don't give a flying duck about anyone but yourself. The more gas you burn, the higher the price will be. The only ones suffering from it are the poor. But since you're making 50 grand + a year you just don't care. Be honest: how many of you that are "pro global warming" & "pro gas guzzling" make less than 50 grand?
Paul



Since you care so much about the poor, you might want to write your representatives in congress and defeat the latest climate change bill. If you think gas is expensive now, what do you think it will be after they add carbon taxes? I'll post more on this later.

This isn't about being lax about pollution and how much gas we use. This is about the bullshit we're being given on global warming. And in the coming posts, I will *prove* it.