Health Insurance & COVID (Page 2/2)
randye SEP 05, 08:59 PM

quote
Originally posted by steve308:

It's also the right of employers including the government to require vaccination as a condition of employment. It's that simple.




No, it's really not that simple.

What you characterize as a "right" most probably isn't.

There are a myriad of existing laws that this kind of attitude runs contrary to, such as Title VII of the civil rights acts of 1964 and 1991, and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 or ADA (42 U.S.C. § 12101) as well as various federal and state labor laws.

This will all eventually be sorted out through litigation and my personal prediction is that the "vax fanatics" are going to be sorely disappointed when they discover that American's personal rights and freedoms long established by legislation and stare decisis far outweigh their hypochondria.

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-05-2021).]

steve308 SEP 05, 09:33 PM
In response to the above. If it wears off I don't think the insurance companies will care about something that isn't there. Mumps, chicken pox, etc. and other 'eliminated' illnesses have made a return to our shores because we have allowed non vaccinated people to come into the country unchecked and they have reintroduce these other diseases to the population. As an individual who over the past decade have had to sit thru the painful deaths of my father and father in-law from slow, lingering, mentally and physically destroying illnesses and seeing the toll it has taken on my mother, mother in-law and our families I sure as sh*t don't want to be the one who carries a virus into the home of my elderly mothers and be the one selfish individual who causes them to become gravely ill. The most used argument has been "It's not FDA approved". Now it is but there are those who will still not get the shot, wear a mask etc because of what ever reason they choose to use, they won't. It's their right and I respect it.

For what it's worth to the it's not FDA approved and don't believe the FDA now that it is contingent, I am also dealing with a family member who has that mindset. He suffered a serious head injury that almost took his life (job accident). He has survived but has memory issues, severe sensitivity to light and it is scaring him to death. He is on the same medications my departed father in-law was on for Dementia / Alzheimer's so yes he should be scared sh+tless. He won't get shot because it wasn't FDA approved. On my last visit I posed the following question to him. ... If a doctor told you tomorrow that there was a highly experimental shot that was available, being tested but was not yet FDA approve that could possible help restore your ability to think, walk in the sunshine, help with your memory issues, would you take a chance on the shot? His answer was "In a heartbeat". I said.. SO you won't get a now FDA approved shot to protect your 87 year old mother but if there is something to help yourself you are all in and I let him return to his shuttered room to reflect on his answer.

I'll close with this, I really don't care if a persons choice is to get the shot or not. Just respect those who feel the need to protect their family, business and their own health. I will continue to protect you and yours by wearing a mask which I will be doing outdoors at the WFT opener this weekend (Probably be a loss) and indoors at the cesspool of humanity like at my local Walmart. To date in Virginia 778,167 cases 11,899 deaths.

Lets find another horse to beat to death.
sourmash SEP 05, 11:03 PM

quote
If it wears off I don't think the insurance companies will care about something that isn't there.


Wearing off is the best you can hope for. Changing your body's immune response is what people should be worried concerned about. Diminishing your immune response is something you'll have to always wait to see as you age.


quote
Mumps, chicken pox, etc. and other 'eliminated' illnesses have made a return to our shores because we have allowed non vaccinated people to come into the country unchecked and they have reintroduce these other diseases to the population.



Totally different argument than the coronavirus. Live virus vaccines and an mRNA against something in the cold and flu category, something never done successfully and it's proving less and less reliable at prevention as we study it.


quote
As an individual who over the past decade have had to sit thru the painful deaths of my father and father in-law from slow, lingering, mentally and physically destroying illnesses and seeing the toll it has taken on my mother, mother in-law and our families I sure as sh*t don't want to be the one who carries a virus into the home of my elderly mothers and be the one selfish individual who causes them to become gravely ill.

The most used argument has been "It's not FDA approved". Now it is but there are those who will still not get the shot, wear a mask etc because of what ever reason they choose to use, they won't. It's their right and I respect it.


You drive a car, right? That's more dangerous. Medical professionals are more dangerous.

The most used argument for me is that it's not that dangerous of a virus. If you aren't way old or seriously fat, no problem. I don't know anyone who has died from this, but plenty of people who have had it.

Which injection are you under the impression that has been approved?


quote
For what it's worth to the it's not FDA approved and don't believe the FDA now that it is contingent, I am also dealing with a family member who has that mindset. He suffered a serious head injury that almost took his life (job accident). He has survived but has memory issues, severe sensitivity to light and it is scaring him to death. He is on the same medications my departed father in-law was on for Dementia / Alzheimer's so yes he should be scared sh+tless. He won't get shot because it wasn't FDA approved. On my last visit I posed the following question to him. ... If a doctor told you tomorrow that there was a highly experimental shot that was available, being tested but was not yet FDA approve that could possible help restore your ability to think, walk in the sunshine, help with your memory issues, would you take a chance on the shot? His answer was "In a heartbeat". I said.. SO you won't get a now FDA approved shot to protect your 87 year old mother but if there is something to help yourself you are all in and I let him return to his shuttered room to reflect on his answer.


IMO, saying that to him is way off base. You don't have a leg to stand on to guilt trip him. Also, 87 is nearly end of life. His life years are (generally) much longer than hers which makes it a practical decision. He also has his own life to live and deserves his own choices.
These things were rushed into production with the goal to sell as many as possible. That isn't equivalent to trials mes like you're comparing them to.


quote
I'll close with this, I really don't care if a persons choice is to get the shot or not.


Well that's obviously not true at all by what you recounted telling the gentleman above.


quote
Just respect those who feel the need to protect their family, business and their own health.


That's what he and we are doing. You need to live what you're saying.


quote
I will continue to protect you and yours by wearing a mask which I will be doing outdoors at the WFT opener this weekend (Probably be a loss) and indoors at the cesspool of humanity like at my local Walmart. To date in Virginia 778,167 cases 11,899 deaths.

Lets find another horse to beat to death.


I wouldn't believe those death numbers. And cases mean nothing. If you test positive with no symptoms, so what?
sourmash SEP 06, 10:26 AM
I'm still wondering which covid injection is he talking about that is FDA approved? As far as I know only the Comirnity shot that you can't even get is approved by the FDA. The mRNA shots you can get are still experimental with emergency authorization and no approval.
Hudini SEP 06, 10:30 PM
Last week the news media ran with the “FDA approved” story but it was a typical half-truth. The marketing label has been approved.
blackrams SEP 07, 07:22 AM

quote
Originally posted by randye:


No, it's really not that simple.

What you characterize as a "right" most probably isn't.

There are a myriad of existing laws that this kind of attitude runs contrary to, such as Title VII of the civil rights acts of 1964 and 1991, and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 or ADA (42 U.S.C. § 12101) as well as various federal and state labor laws.

This will all eventually be sorted out through litigation and my personal prediction is that the "vax fanatics" are going to be sorely disappointed when they discover that American's personal rights and freedoms long established by legislation and stare decisis far outweigh their hypochondria.




I'll agree that this will get settled through litigation. I'm not qualified to say which way it will go but, I don't agree with the "personal prediction" of most probably isn't. YMMV
We'll just have to wait and see. While this isn't OSHA, I see this as a very similar situation, the employer's responsibility to protect employees from health and safety issues is prevalent IMO. Yes, that's an opinion.

Rams

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 09-07-2021).]