What do you say when people ask you? (Page 3/3)
OldGuyinaGT FEB 08, 06:42 PM
I am Roman Catholic, raised that way from baptism as an infant. Every school I ever attended, through college, was a Catholic institution. I practice my religion, but not fanatically (and there was about a decade-long hiatus in my 20's). I would certainly not call myself pious, and I can't say whether I could be called devout. I'm probably not as nice a guy as I'm supposed to be. I don't preach or evangelize, but I'll answer any reasonable question if asked.

There's a lot wrong with the Roman Catholic Church, and its history is far from pure. But for me, the basic teachings and beliefs of the Church (I certainly don't agree with several rules and guidelines) are the best fit for me. I do think a lot of what others may think are Catholic beliefs are mistaken and inaccurate. (By the way, the Pope is only considered "infallible" when "..he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals..." which has happened only rarely throughout the history of the Church). I will also say that the fact that a priest ultimately rises through the ranks to become Pope is no guarantee that he will not be a clown, or something worse. I was taught since my time in a Catholic elementary school that, except when administering the sacraments, any priest, including bishops and cardinals - and Popes - is just a man, like anyone else - just as flawed, just as fallible. I do wish there wasn't so much proof of this lying around.

I have a healthy respect for all widely recognized religions, and some lesser known ones; I can't call them wrong because I'm not convinced there is "one true religion". While I disagree strongly with atheists, I respect their right to hold that belief (or the absence thereof, I guess). I only take issue with them when they disparage others for their beliefs, which does happen; I have a brother-in-law who's very good at it. I believe there is a God because I think I've seen evidence and because, the universe being what it is, "there's got to be". I can't conceive of everything being as it is without one. But for what it's worth, I also believe in evolution, because my God is an engineer, not a magician.

YMMV.
rinselberg FEB 08, 07:54 PM

quote
Originally posted by OldGuyinaGT:
. . . I have a healthy respect for all widely recognized religions, and some lesser known ones; I can't call them wrong because I'm not convinced there is "one true religion". While I disagree strongly with atheists, I respect their right to hold that belief (or the absence thereof, I guess). I only take issue with them when they disparage others for their beliefs, which does happen; I have a brother-in-law who's very good at it. I believe there is a God because I think I've seen evidence and because, the universe being what it is, "there's got to be". I can't conceive of everything being as it is without one. But for what it's worth, I also believe in evolution, because my God is an engineer, not a magician.


That reminds me of an old joke, about the anatomy of the human body. There is more than one version of it. Here's the one that I like:

Three engineers are having an argument about God and the anatomy of the human body.

The first one says: "God must be a mechanical engineer. Consider the marvel of the bones and joints of the human body."

The second one says: "God is an electrical engineer. Look at the intricacy of the human brain and nervous system."

And the third one?

Click to show

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 02-08-2022).]

randye FEB 08, 09:19 PM

quote
Originally posted by OldGuyinaGT:

I will also say that the fact that a priest ultimately rises through the ranks to become Pope is no guarantee that he will not be a clown, or something worse. I was taught since my time in a Catholic elementary school that, except when administering the sacraments, any priest, including bishops and cardinals - and Popes - is just a man, like anyone else - just as flawed, just as fallible.




That is an excellent observation.

I used to say that there should have been an 11th Commandment: "Let no man interpret my word for another man."

Over the years I have modified that idea to: "Let no man stand as an authority of my word over another man."

I believe that is a fundamental concept to grasp if anyone is to be able to successfully separate the idea of faith from organized religion and truly understand their own individual relationship with God.

None of that is meant to say that we cannot benefit from the insights, learning and testimony of other Christians as we continually come to a more full understanding of our faith. (e.g. I was in my early 30's before I learned that the true meaning of Exodus 21:24 and Matthew 5:38 was never meant as a mandate for "revenge" but instead as the earliest expression in human history of proportional justice and how, along with the 10 Commandments, it forms much of the bedrock of our codified law today.)

[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-09-2022).]

maryjane FEB 08, 11:23 PM

quote
Originally posted by 2.5:


"Do you believe in god" was the intro



I didn't see any intro whatsoever. Just another directive to The Great Gawd Youtube.

I don't worship at that alter.
Raydar FEB 09, 09:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by OldGuyinaGT:

...




Thanks for your response. It's appreciated.

"Every school I ever attended, through college, was a Catholic institution."

I only attended Catholic school through 8th grade. Then switched to public HS. Was a hell of a culture shock.
But the indoctrination that I received in elementary school was quite unhealthy, IMHO. Had a great deal to do with the "guilt trips" that I alluded to. Of course, parents "helped" in that regard.
In retrospect, maybe if I had gone through with the more advanced education, it would have tempered the indoctrination a bit. ("But wait! There's more!")

"I don't preach or evangelize, but I'll answer any reasonable question if asked."

Pretty much my take on it, as well. Mostly, I don't talk about it.

"By the way, the Pope is only considered "infallible" when "..he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals..." which has happened only rarely throughout the history of the Church."

Of course, you are correct. I had forgotten that not-so-minor detail. Lends a whole new perspective. Thank you.

"I will also say that the fact that a priest ultimately rises through the ranks to become Pope is no guarantee that he will not be a clown, or something worse. I was taught since my time in a Catholic elementary school that, except when administering the sacraments, any priest, including bishops and cardinals - and Popes - is just a man, like anyone else - just as flawed, just as fallible. I do wish there wasn't so much proof of this lying around."

Yes. And, sadly, anyone who wants to do any bashing immediately jumps straight to "clown" aspect. But it's the same with any group that someone wants to disparage. Zero in on the small minority of arseholes, and ignore the majority who are doing what they are supposed to.

"I have a healthy respect for all widely recognized religions, and some lesser known ones; I can't call them wrong because I'm not convinced there is "one true religion".

I believe that different religions are just a different flavor of belief in the same diety.
Of course, people will all have different perceptions and will spin whatever it is, to suit their own purposes at the time. And they're subject to change. Kind of why I don't subscribe to any "religion" today. I know what's in my heart and mind, and as long as I'm honest with myself, I'm okay with it.


quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
...
I'm glad to hear it didnt wreck your journey.



Thanks. I appreciate it. All good.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-09-2022).]

2.5 FEB 09, 12:30 PM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:


I didn't see any intro whatsoever. Just another directive to The Great Gawd Youtube.

I don't worship at that alter.



Well, I hope you know I don't understand you on this whole against video thing, I'm not sure who might. But that is just the way it is, unless you explain, I really can't understand. I'd suggest maybe making your own thread about it. Now that you know what this thread was about, if you'd like to reply to the topic, feel free.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 02-09-2022).]

theBDub FEB 09, 03:46 PM
I say I don't anymore, but I think religion is a net positive in the world and am not here to convert anyone. They'll typically ask why not, and I'll go into my own journey.

JP seems to think that without God, or at least a belief in something higher to hold yourself to, that morality doesn't exist. At least, that's my interpretation of a long and wordy video. I don't agree with that.
Patrick FEB 09, 04:21 PM

quote
Originally posted by theBDub:

JP seems to think that without God, or at least a belief in something higher to hold yourself to, that morality doesn't exist. At least, that's my interpretation of a long and wordy video. I don't agree with that.



I agree with Brennan in his disagreement of that.

I was not brought up with religion, although I did attend Sunday school for several months at eight years of age. (My mom wanted me to at least be introduced to the idea, but it was my decision as to whether I wished to continue or not. I didn't.)

It was my parents who set my moral compass, and I like to think they did an excellent job. Even now, all these years later with my parents long deceased, it's not wanting to disappoint my parents (or disrespect their memory) that helps to keep me grounded. Religion and/or God plays no part whatsoever.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 02-09-2022).]