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| CNBC political poll.. (Page 4/4) |
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Jake_Dragon
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DEC 13, 03:10 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
MJ, Black, etc...
The problem I have with these numbers is I believe them to be significantly inflated.
Some facts:
The United States has the HIGHEST number of reported COVID deaths, than any other country in the entire world. We are listed as having over 775k COVID deaths.
The next two countries are Brazil (~600K), and India, (~450k).
So... in simple terms, the United States has somehow managed almost DOUBLE the number of COVID deaths, than India, that has almost 4 times the population of the United States.
There are two logical things that we can conclude from this:
1 - The vaccines are killing people at a higher rate, or the vaccine is leading people to be more contagious and die more quickly.
2 - The numbers are vastly exaggerated, we haven't had anywhere near that many deaths, or every other country is under-counting.
You have to pick one of these two options, because it's statistically impossible for the United States to have 1/4th the population but twice the number of deaths. We are also, significantly more vaccinated as a population than Brazil and India is.
Personally, I don't think the the vaccines are leading to us dying more easily... but I had to put that in there because if you believe the numbers to be correct, then it is the only other alternative.
What I do believe, is that the numbers are nonsense. We already know that COVID DEATHs... are not the same thing as "death by COVID." The United States is the ONLY country that evaluates covid / death cases in this way, and the numbers very obviously show it. The United States incentivizes labeling a death as a COVID death, because the hospital gets more money. A DX of COVID immediately gets additional funds in the same way that Lyme Disease and HIV also gets additional funds. We already know too that many state health officials (including the famous one from the lady from Illinois) who specifically stated that if you died in a car accident, but had COVID at the time of death, you are considered a COVID death. Please let me know if anyone needs me to find this video and repost it if you've forgotten.
So... I think these numbers are absurd. It's unfortunate, because I think a lot of people have died, but we've muddled our numbers significantly, and it makes us look ridiculous, when in fact we were literally the ones who created the vaccines and got the vaccination first. |
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When they tied a $$ to a Covid case the numbers are going to get inflated.
Want to fix Covid? Publish the formula for the vaccine and give it away, anything else is just self serving.
If there is even a hint that the government will pay for something the numbers will get inflated. 16 years working in the health field I have seen things. Glad I got out of that...
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sourmash
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DEC 13, 05:36 PM
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randye
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DEC 13, 06:53 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by blackrams:
 All viruses mutate.
Rams |
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Yes they do and, unlike in the movies, they do not naturally become more deadly or contagious. .
They actually genetically degrade over successive generations and lose "potency", especially virii which replicate asexually like SARS COV2 (a/k/a "Covid").
"MULLER'S RATCHET":
In organisms with high mutations rates (such as RNA viruses), Muller's Ratchet suggests that the mean fitness in a population will always decrease.
In small populations, mutation-free individuals are rare, and they will be lost through genetic drift. Deleterious mutations are generated at a sufficiently high rate to advance Muller's ratchet in an RNA virus.
I believe that we can also safely dismiss any "deme structure" effect driving up the mean viral fitness simply because there has really been no geographic isolation of the structure population of the SARS COV 2 virus.
In 2002 SARS COV1 also originated in Asia (China) and swept around the planet.
There was no effort to develop a vaccine but it eventually faded away and now nobody seems to even question why it did or how.
Dr. Hermann Joseph Muller knew why all the way back in 1931 when he made his initial "ratchet" observations.[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-13-2021).]
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blackrams
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DEC 13, 11:45 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by randye:
Yes they do and, unlike in the movies, they do not naturally become more deadly or contagious. .
They actually genetically degrade over successive generations and lose "potency", especially virii which replicate asexually like SARS COV2 (a/k/a "Covid").
"MULLER'S RATCHET":
In organisms with high mutations rates (such as RNA viruses), Muller's Ratchet suggests that the mean fitness in a population will always decrease.
In small populations, mutation-free individuals are rare, and they will be lost through genetic drift. Deleterious mutations are generated at a sufficiently high rate to advance Muller's ratchet in an RNA virus.
I believe that we can also safely dismiss any "deme structure" effect driving up the mean viral fitness simply because there has really been no geographic isolation of the structure population of the SARS COV 2 virus.
In 2002 SARS COV1 also originated in Asia (China) and swept around the planet.
There was no effort to develop a vaccine but it eventually faded away and now nobody seems to even question why it did or how.
Dr. Hermann Joseph Muller knew why all the way back in 1931 when he made his initial "ratchet" observations.
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I don't believe I suggested anything similar to the "movies". That degradation appears to be happening with the newest strain but, we'll have to wait to see how that all works out I'm told.
Although, the allegation was made that the mutations were due to the COVID vaccinations. without any proof. I'm pretty sure there's several actual virologists trying to figure such things out already but, that's a guess on my part.
Rams[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-13-2021).]
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maryjane
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DEC 14, 12:26 AM
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| quote | | You have to pick one of these two options, because it's statistically impossible for the United States to have 1/4th the population but twice the number of deaths. |
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No I don't.
The US population is the most mobile in the world. We travel more than any other nation, both within CONUS and abroad. We (our population at large) physically interact more with each other than either India or Brazil. We spend more time in recreation with others and at public gatherings than either India or Brazil. We travel more intrastate and interstate for work than India or Brazil .
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82-T/A [At Work]
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DEC 14, 07:37 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by maryjane:
No I don't.
The US population is the most mobile in the world. We travel more than any other nation, both within CONUS and abroad. We (our population at large) physically interact more with each other than either India or Brazil. We spend more time in recreation with others and at public gatherings than either India or Brazil. We travel more intrastate and interstate for work than India or Brazil .
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MJ, I've been to India, and I think you have too. Especially in the cities, they intermingle with absolutely no sense of personal space or personal bubble (cultural). In many cities, they're living on top of each other, and the social norms we have are not the same as they have. At the bazaars and markets, people are crowding each other as if you were at a Metallica concert.
It was tongue in cheek that the vaccines are killing people, but we do actually know for a fact, this is fact, that we... the United States, count COVID deaths differently than every other country on this planet. And it is for that reason that our numbers are significantly higher than everyone else's. It isn't possible for a country of 330 million to have double the deaths of a country that has almost a trillion.
EDIT: If we don't think the numbers are excessive, then I think it would speak volumes about the lack of effectiveness of the vaccine. I don't feel like doing the math, but in effect... we would be failing hugely compared to a totally unvaccinated third world country. Personally, I think the actual death numbers are more realistically closer to 60-70%. I think by and large, we have an older population, so there's that... but we also have better access to medical care than India does. I suspect that also India is under-counting... not intentionally, but they maybe just don't have the infrastructure to properly account for all the deaths throughout their country. I also think the vaccines have not been anywhere near as effective as were originally hoped. For those of us who got the Pfizer and Moderna, it's a "training guide" for our B & T cells... not really a vaccine if you will. I'm not discounting that they've helped, but the reality is... since it's not really a vaccine, it doesn't actually prevent the spread at all as we know with breakout cases (a term they don't even really use anymore since effectively almost everyone has gotten some level of COVID at this point). That typically only happens after someone has actually gotten a virus... and beaten it, with natural immunity. Vaccinated or not. I suspect the J&J would have a better track record on this.
In the scheme of things... I think the over-counting was unintentional. I do not believe that perhaps there was any intent to exaggerate the death numbers for the sole purpose of hurting trump... though I do believe the media parrotted these numbers in the same way they did deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush administration, only to go quiet once Obama took office (not that those wars would be his fault) ... but there's no denying logically that the monetization of the illness by hospitals had some play in improperly inflating these numbers. We have multiple states that have officially stated that they count a covid death, as someone who died and had covid at the time of death, regardless of whether or not it was the cause of death (or they exhibited any symptoms). So there's that.[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 12-14-2021).]
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