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| The intersection of Republican state legislators, 1619 Project & Critical Race Theory (Page 1/1) |
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rinselberg
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MAY 08, 06:38 PM
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A brief video conversation (less than 5 minutes) between Jon Meacham, visiting professor (History) at Vanderbilt University, and MSNBC anchor Joy Reid.
Jon Meacham does most of the talking.
"Joy Reid: The GOP is obsessed with lying about critical race theory"
May 7, 2021.
https://www.msnbc.com/the-r...-theory-111531077713
I also have a transcript of the conversation. The transcript goes beyond just the first almost 5 minutes that are on the video.
REID: The GQP and their allies over at the B.S. factory are obsessed with lying about critical race theory.
Roughly a dozen Republican states have passed or introduced vague legislation that prohibits critical race theory or divisive concepts, whatever that means.
It`s fairly hypocritical for the party that freaks out about faux censorship and cancel culture to cancel an idea that they just don`t like.
But why let logic get in the way of their culture wars? Just yesterday, the Tennessee General Assembly banned teaching critical race theory in that state. And Arizona is on its way to doing the same, threatening to fine teachers who are already underpaid $5,000 if they break the law.
None of this should shock you. Why would the Republican Party want to have a factual conversation about race, gender and equity, when their most pressing issue today is pushing the big lie?
Joining now is Jon Meacham, presidential historian and host of the "Fate of Fact" podcast, which I`m excited about.
And, Jon, Nikole Hannah-Jones, who -- of -- behind The 1619 Project, she tweeted a series of quotes by WEB Du Bois that I thought were so spot on. I can`t quote them, but I will paraphrase them, that history is one of two things. It`s either information or it`s a palliative to sort of create patriotism and make people feel good.
To me, American history has been taught as the latter all of my adult life and way long before that. Why do you think people are freaking out so much that people want to teach it as accurate fact?
JON MEACHAM, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Yes.
I will say this. As a native Tennessean and a resident of the state, 1925, we decided to not teach another theory called evolution. And that didn`t work out very well in the long run. So, whenever the Tennessee legislature gets into trying to ban free speech and the exploration of new ideas, we should we should be very wary.
Look, there`s -- it`s possible that the pendulum, the spectrum for informed, reason-based conversation could be out of whack. But it`s been out of whack on the white -- prevailing white narrative for more than two- and-a-half centuries.
So, the fact that critical race theory and The 1619 Project are part of the conversation now is, in fact, what the founders wanted, right? The American Revolution was not least about giving reason a fighting chance in the arena of ideas and governance with appetite, ambition and passion.
I believe -- and that a lot of folks don`t -- but I believe that America fundamentally was an enlightenment era project. It was attempting to take the world from being organized vertically, where popes and princes and prelates and kings, who, either by an accident of birth or an incident of election, had reflexive authority over all of us, to turning it into a more horizontal one, where, in fact, we all had the individual capacity to determine our own destinies.
You and I know and everybody listening knows that that was not complete, that that was an aspiration that was not fulfilled, and has not been fully fulfilled even unto this hour.
But the greatness of the country is not that there`s some static moment where you -- we take our story and our reality back to. The greatness of the country is that we have the capacity to use reason and conscience and history and faith to build a more perfect and better union.
And there are a lot of folks who think that the union is inherently corrupt. I don`t believe that, any more than the union is corrupt insofar as human beings are corrupt. And we have a debate going on here that`s not unlike the 1850s, when William Lloyd Garrison burned a copy of the Constitution, and said it was a pact with the devil.
And Frederick Douglass said, no, there is no soil as conducive to the growth of reform as American soil. And Douglass is a fascinating figure, and, like all vulnerable people, thought different things at different times.
But that`s where we have to be, is that this is an ongoing struggle, and you should not be banning and shutting down conversations that you find uncomfortable.
REID: But -- so, here`s the thing.
I mean, the enlightenment project that the founders embarked upon was embarked upon, in fairness, for themselves. It was in every man a king, as you said...
MEACHAM: Yes.
REID: ... Where the king could be removed from -- right?
But here`s the thing. If you create a country, and the purpose of that is to liberate yourself, and you build that on a foundation of saying, but I also can negate the humanity of these black people because I want to own them, and I can negate the humanity of these indigenous people because I want their land, you build something in that we need to reckon with.
And so I understand why, for a lot of people, they take our history so sort of negatively personally. History is not an indictment. It`s just history.
But I want to let you listen really quick to what Nikole Hannah-Jones had to say about Mitch McConnell specifically, because he`s one of the people at war with critical race theory. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKOLE HANNAH-JONES, "THE NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE": 1619 is important date for Mitch McConnell`s own family, because his own family left Virginia, came to Alabama to start cotton forced labor plantations, owned dozens of other human beings.
And his own wealth and status was acquired because of the legacy of slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
REID: Tom Cotton, same thing. He said slavery was a necessary evil. His family wealth was built on enslavement.
And so the thing is, this that people, individuals who oppose the idea of rethinking history, not from the vantage point of the winners, which are white Christian men, but from the vantage point of everyone else -- and that`s all critical race theory is doing, is saying, let`s look at the vantage point of the other people who were there, and let`s incorporate that.
MEACHAM: Yes.
REID: Right?
MEACHAM: Yes.
REID: Because if -- look, if people who look like me thought America was irredeemable, we wouldn`t fight for civil rights. We wouldn`t care.
MEACHAM: Right. Right. Right.
REID: So, is it that people are taking it personal and saying, if I look at this history, I might have to be accountable for what I have?
MEACHAM: Yes, I think that is cert -- I think you have done a deft bit of psychological analysis there, absolutely.
And people who look like me -- I`m a boringly heterosexual white Southern male Episcopalian. Things tend to work out for me in this country, right?
But I believe that to whom much is given, much is expected. And my view is that, if you are not open to ideas that are uncomfortable, then you are not living up to what the country and the Western world -- we will just limit it to that for a second -- has been built on.
And this is not to say -- history is not a bedtime story. It`s not a fairy tale.
REID: Yes.
MEACHAM: There was never a once upon a time, and there`s never going to be a happily ever after, because it`s a human undertaking.
And we are all flawed, fallen and fallible. And we have to confront that.
REID: Yes.
MEACHAM: And I understand -- yes, I understand how people are sort of reacting to this.
But if you`re reacting in good conscience, you`re not banning something, right?
REID: Right. That`s right.
MEACHAM: You debate it, right?
REID: That`s correct. And if people very much...
MEACHAM: You don`t shove it out.
REID: That`s right.
History is not a bedtime story. I`m going to use that.
MEACHAM: And so just debate -- so, let`s debate it.
REID: Let`s debate it.
(LAUGHTER)
REID: And, by the way, your podcast is called "Fate of Fact."
It`s going to explore the question of how fear conquered truth and trace the roots of Americans` prevailing culture of polarization, with an emphasis on why the right has chosen to break with the governing consensus, however imperfect, once embodied by the figurative conversation between Roosevelt and Reagan.
I love this idea. I will be listening to your podcast.
Thank you so much. You are anything but boring, my friend. Thank you for being here.
That is Jon Meacham.
Show me the transcript.
I have not so much looked at an actual full page of text from the 1619 Project. I have seen and read from people that were talking about it. When the 1619 Project was first published, I didn't have an online subscription to the New York Times. Now that I do, it might (I guess) open up that possibility for me. To have a direct, "eyes on" experience of my own with the 1619 Project. That's a new thought, though. It just came to me like an hour ago.
I think it would be wrong for any public school system or any taxpayer-subsidized school system to hold up the 1619 Project or Critical Race Theory as something that students must accept and align with, without questioning of it or debate.
At the same time, I suspect that the anti-1619 Project and anti-Critical Race Theory ideas and bills that are percolating in many state legislatures are--more than not--fundamentally wrong-headed.
That's all I can say (I think.) Unless someone here joins this Topic with an active voice.[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-08-2021).]
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