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| Question: Dimmable LED and PWM (Page 1/1) |
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williegoat
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SEP 02, 09:56 PM
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Most of the bulbs in my house are dimmable LEDs. My dimmers work by PWM (Insteon brand).
There are some bulbs that I keep at 30% all day long. Will this severely affect the service life of these bulbs?------------------
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FieroSTETZ
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SEP 02, 10:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Most of the bulbs in my house are dimmable LEDs. My dimmers work by PWM (Insteon brand).
There are some bulbs that I keep at 30% all day long. Will this severely affect the service life of these bulbs?
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Are they one large LED and a ballast, or is it an array of tiny LED's? It really shouldn't matter, as long as the bulb is listed as dimmable and you're using an LED/PWM dimmer, things should be good. If the LED bulb is a big LED with a ballast in the bulb (it would have cooling fins around the base of the bulb probably) it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the temperature after it's been on for a while. Older bulbs are more likely to have issues than new ones, but newer bulbs are more likely to be cheaply made chinese bulbs that probably don't totally meet their listed specifications.
*if* every component in the chain is of "as listed" quality it should be fine. If it's a goofy chinese dimmer or the bulbs are low quality you might experience a lot of heat generation when dimming for prolonged periods of time.
Check this thing - I don't think Insteon is on there, but they might be a rebrand of another OEM that might be on the list, it'll take a bit of googling to check https://www.lutron.com/en-U...LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx[This message has been edited by FieroSTETZ (edited 09-02-2021).]
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williegoat
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SEP 02, 10:37 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by FieroSTETZ:
Are they one large LED and a ballast, or is it an array of tiny LED's? It really shouldn't matter, as long as the bulb is listed as dimmable and you're using an LED/PWM dimmer, things should be good. If the LED bulb is a big LED with a ballast in the bulb (it would have cooling fins around the base of the bulb probably) it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the temperature after it's been on for a while. Older bulbs are more likely to have issues than new ones, but newer bulbs are more likely to be cheaply made chinese bulbs that probably don't totally meet their listed specifications.
*if* every component in the chain is of "as listed" quality it should be fine. If it's a goofy chinese dimmer or the bulbs are low quality you might experience a lot of heat generation when dimming for prolonged periods of time.
Check this thing - I don't think Insteon is on there, but they might be a rebrand of another OEM that might be on the list, it'll take a bit of googling to check https://www.lutron.com/en-U...LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx
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These are 6 watt BR30 type floodlights. I can only guess that they are an array. I would have to crack one open to be sure.
I just checked the temps with my IR thermometer and they are at 80oF (77oF ambient temp) on the face and they have been on all day at 30%. The shape of the fixture prevents me from checking the backside.
I was mostly thinking that the constant, rapid voltage fluctuation might be hard on them.
The only LED failures that I have had are in a globe fixture that gets no air flow. I went back to halogens in that fixture.
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FieroSTETZ
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SEP 02, 10:47 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
These are 6 watt BR30 type floodlights. I can only guess that they are an array. I would have to crack one open to be sure.
I just checked the temps with my IR thermometer and they are at 80oF (77oF ambient temp) on the face and they have been on all day at 30%. The shape of the fixture prevents me from checking the backside.
I was mostly thinking that the constant, rapid voltage fluctuation might be hard on them.
The only LED failures that I have had are in a globe fixture that gets no air flow. I went back to halogens in that fixture. |
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If you have access to a young person (this sounds weird already) have them get close to the bulbs and see if they can hear a squealing, if the ballast or controller is stressing it'll make a really high pitched squealing sound. As long as both the bulbs and the dimmer are of reasonable quality you should be fine, but Lutron has a ton of information about matching controllers to bulbs. It's not quite my forte, but years of programming arduinos, etc. as LED controllers and similar have made me reasonably familiar.
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williegoat
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SEP 02, 11:11 PM
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Thank you for your informed advice. If they last a year, I will call that good. LEDs are much cheaper now than the were, just a few years ago.
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FieroSTETZ
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SEP 02, 11:13 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by williegoat:
Thank you for your informed advice. If they last a year, I will call that good. LEDs are much cheaper now than the were, just a few years ago. |
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Yeah but its easier to buy low quality "cheap" ones now so it's kind of a trade off.
Next time you go to replace them it might not hurt to source bulbs and controllers from the same company so you definitely know who to blame if it stops working 
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theogre
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SEP 03, 05:02 PM
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"Dimmable" LED can be a lot of problems.
Many ways to do that and often depends on Dimmers used w/ them. And Some hate PWM but may seem to work.
Note: Sound or lack of may help you or not matter at all... Many PWM are "clocked" way higher so that young people and even animals can't hear But may not play well w/ some "Dimmable" LED.
All 120 or 240 VAC LED are some kind of array including COB setups when you often can't see the array easy.
Even Many Surface Mount "White" LEDs are 3 or more LED in one package for use w/ 10+ volt supply.
All use some type of "ballast" but newer ones may have most to all of that on the same board as the LEDs. In some cases, the only parts Not on same board are Dropping Caps and Smoothing Caps that won't play well w/ high temps.
LED like CFL is E-waste when dead. You need LED to last many Years but many don't last a year. While LED have no Mercury like CFL or Lead thanks to RoHS but is still a Huge E-waste problem. Not Even CREE bulbs sold by H-Depot that broke $10 point last as advertised. I have several early CREE that lasted months and "warranty" is a joke. I had 1 3-way that died in weeks so Return to HD Store and saving headaches w/ CREE.------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)
The Ogre's Fiero Cave
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BHall71
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SEP 04, 05:01 PM
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These LED bulbs are not all they are cracked up to be. Most, if not all that I have purchased have failed within 6-7 months of use. Sheesh, can't someone make a reliable voltage regulator anymore?
Brian
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