All political threads temporarily moved to the Trash Can (Page 1/12)
Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 05:18 AM
Since apparantly, it is so incredibly difficult for some of you to have any kind of discussion in a civilized way, and since I'm getting sick and tired of the hundreds of posts that get reported to me (not to mention the PMs and emails), I'm temporarily moving political threads to the Trash Can. Maybe I'll move them back later, maybe I'll rename "The Trash Can" to "Politics". We'll see.

It's either that or banning of political threads altogether or closing TO/T until I'm convinced people can behave again. Don't like political threads being in The Trash Can? Tough luck. Go find some politics forum instead of posting your diatribes on a car forum.

I'm starting with moving political threads that have new posts since yesterday. Every other political thread here in TO/T that gets a new post, will be moved to The Trash Can
maryjane FEB 21, 05:24 AM
I suspect the trashcan will simply start being a very busy place and then, the same bad actors will just misbehave there and whichever party 1st feels aggrieved will start reporting trashcan posts.
Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 06:09 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

I suspect the trashcan will simply start being a very busy place and then, the same bad actors will just misbehave there and whichever party 1st feels aggrieved will start reporting trashcan posts.



Undoubtedly, but at least TO/T will be a much nicer place. Plus, when someone says "it stinks in the trash can", I can say "well yeah, the name kinda implies that".
maryjane FEB 21, 06:21 AM
Yep. You got your work cut out for you for sure tho. Thanks for your efforts!

If people would stick with the issues themselves, instead of calling one another stupid for their stance on the issue being discussed, it would be fine, but there are a few who insist on making it personal. Once one goes down that path, it's no longer a political discussion.


Folks..pay attention.
16 threads either locked or moved to the trashcan in a matter of a few weeks.
Cliff is NOT half steppin here.
We best all get our act together if you want a place to play.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-21-2022).]

Cliff Pennock FEB 21, 06:47 AM
The thing I never get, is what it actually is they are trying to convince each other of.

If two people have different views on a subject, then in my mind, you will try to convince the other by saying "I believe your view is incorrect because I believe you are misinformed".

What I see instead is that they say "your view is incorrect because you are stupid".

In the first case, there's a chance that one of the two parties says "I stand corrected. I was indeed misinformed". What will never happen is that someone will say "I stand corrected, I am indeed stupid".

Problem is, some facts can be interpreted in more than one way. And neither is incorrect.
maryjane FEB 21, 07:20 AM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

The thing I never get, is what it actually is they are trying to convince each other of.

If two people have different views on a subject, then in my mind, you will try to convince the other by saying "I believe your view is incorrect because I believe you are misinformed".

What I see instead is that they say "your view is incorrect because you are stupid".

In the first case, there's a chance that one of the two parties says "I stand corrected. I was indeed misinformed". What will never happen is that someone will say "I stand corrected, I am indeed stupid".

Problem is, some facts can be interpreted in more than one way. And neither is incorrect.




Very true, but it is the facts (or data) that are interpreted and new info can mean yesterday's facts are out the window.
Still, neither of those means someone is stupid.

I hope you stay safe over there in Europe!!
Fats FEB 21, 07:26 AM
I don't understand the reporting. Why? It's politics, it gets messy sometimes, It'll likely never be things we agree on. I get that almost all of us are just peeing into the wind, but I enjoy some of it. :/

I really enjoy reading different the different points of view, but we do get out of hand from time to time.
82-T/A [At Work] FEB 21, 07:56 AM

quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

bad actors will just misbehave there and whichever party 1st feels aggrieved will start reporting trashcan posts.




Russian maligned influence campaigns... my thought exactly!



quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:





That is a "g," my good sir.
Jonesy FEB 21, 09:27 AM
Me and a few of my friends ran a gaming community for a little over a decade. Started in the late 90's, lasted until 2011 when we finally shut the site down.

We had a great community of people from all over the country. At our peak i think we had around 3500 members, and running 5 different game servers. We even had teams in the community that competed in the early pro game leagues OGL, CAL, for games like Counter Strike and Battlefield 2. Every year we would meet up in Atlanta for our annual lan party. Rent out the conference room for a weekend, and everyone brings their PC's and we all set up and game all weekend. Having a lan party with 400+ people is quite the experience, it was a blast. Were even sponsored by Nvidia and gave away graphics cards and shirts and stuff as prizes.

Me and my buddy funded the community for years, but as things grew eventually we needed help, so a few more people joined our "counsel" that helped fund the site and servers. I always had a strict rule on the forums.. No religion, and no politics.

About 10 years in, some members started asking for a "religion/politics" section be added to the forums. I said no, and so did my buddy. But the other 3 "funders" didn't see harm in it, so i was out voted, and the section was added to the forum..

In less than two years, it destroyed our community. Dozens of friendships were broken, people started leaving in droves. Eventually i removed it, but it was too late. Too much was said, to many feelings and egos hurt, ect.

If you want to have a site/community dedicated to a hobby or whatever.. I recommend keeping it strictly to that. Easiest way to kill a community is to allow religion and politics to enter the discussion.

Just my experience.
82-T/A [At Work] FEB 21, 10:00 AM

quote
Originally posted by Jonesy:

Me and a few of my friends ran a gaming community for a little over a decade. Started in the late 90's, lasted until 2011 when we finally shut the site down.

We had a great community of people from all over the country. At our peak i think we had around 3500 members, and running 5 different game servers. We even had teams in the community that competed in the early pro game leagues OGL, CAL, for games like Counter Strike and Battlefield 2. Every year we would meet up in Atlanta for our annual lan party. Rent out the conference room for a weekend, and everyone brings their PC's and we all set up and game all weekend. Having a lan party with 400+ people is quite the experience, it was a blast. Were even sponsored by Nvidia and gave away graphics cards and shirts and stuff as prizes.

Me and my buddy funded the community for years, but as things grew eventually we needed help, so a few more people joined our "counsel" that helped fund the site and servers. I always had a strict rule on the forums.. No religion, and no politics.

About 10 years in, some members started asking for a "religion/politics" section be added to the forums. I said no, and so did my buddy. But the other 3 "funders" didn't see harm in it, so i was out voted, and the section was added to the forum..

In less than two years, it destroyed our community. Dozens of friendships were broken, people started leaving in droves. Eventually i removed it, but it was too late. Too much was said, to many feelings and egos hurt, ect.

If you want to have a site/community dedicated to a hobby or whatever.. I recommend keeping it strictly to that. Easiest way to kill a community is to allow religion and politics to enter the discussion.

Just my experience.




My experience comes from having grown as an individual, and doing all the things wrong that I probably wouldn't do today.


We are a product of our environment, and our influences... or even perhaps, LACK of influences.


You need only look on here 10-20 years back to see plenty of things that I've said and done that I wouldn't be proud of today. But the one thing I've learned more than anything... it's about being emotional about these things. I had a lot of friends growing up as a young adult that spanned the political spectrum. We became friends for other reasons. As we got older or... as things simply became more political, we still remained friends because we knew that in "times of need," we'd each be there for each other. We still fight and even yell at each other (in e-mails), but we're still really good friends... because again, we know that our politics shouldn't define who we are as a person. Maybe the party signifies some of the characteristics we have as individuals, but it shouldn't define us.

The problem arises (my opinion) when you adopt the party line as your way of life. This is something that political parties want, actually... because you become so supportive that you cannot look past someone's political affiliation without labeling them as something. I've TRIED... at least, in the past decade or so... to be increasingly more relaxed about the way I respond to things. I accept not everyone has the same views and influences as me. While I do obviously think my opinions are the right ones, it doesn't meant that I shouldn't still accept the fact that others are equally committed to their opinions.

NOT having a discussion about these topics of course does not /really/ solve anything I think... we're still going to have our opinion. As a collective society, we need to be able to learn to deal with the modern information age, and our opinions. "Back in the day," the only people who acted the way they do were politicians, and a few really, really radical people... who were all crazy, and made up like 1%. We could like or dislike a president, but it wasn't something as pervasive in our day to day lives.

Because of social media, internet blogs, and the 24/7 news cycle... this is a learning curve that humanity will need to recon with, and stopping this discourse simply delays the inevitable.