Thought I had a problem with Home wiring (Page 1/2)
CoolBlue87GT SEP 17, 10:02 PM
I discovered I had no power to my outside power outlets. They worked last week. Traced the problem to a faulty GFCI outlet in one of our bathrooms. The reset button kept tripping without anything hooked up. Apparently these GFCI outlets go bad, this one was installed in 82.

Long story short, I replaced the faulty one with a new GFCI outlet, making sure the line & load wires were hooked up correctly. That fixed the issue.

Now a few days later, I got to thinking, how the circuit was wired to the outside outlets and to the second bathroom. I was wondering if this was to code, I was worried that the previous owner had done something wrong.

After doing some research, turns out it's an accepted practice to daisy chain other regular outlets to a GFCI outlet. (as long as the CFGI is this first outlet in the circuit) I was surprised to find this out.
Patrick SEP 17, 11:26 PM

quote
Originally posted by CoolBlue87GT:

After doing some research, turns out it's an accepted practice to daisy chain other regular outlets to a GFCI outlet. (as long as the CFGI is this first outlet in the circuit) I was surprised to find this out.



Yeah, decades ago I had wired up the outside electrical outlets to the GFCI outlet that serviced the washing machine located in the basement. At the time, GFCI outlets were rather pricey, so I was happy enough to save a few bucks this way... and it was even legal.
Notorio SEP 17, 11:44 PM
When I replace mine I get the new models with an LED to show the power is ON. Evidently you are supposed to check them for operation once per year with a special plug in that simulates a ground fault.
Patrick SEP 17, 11:55 PM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Evidently you are supposed to check them for operation once per year with a special plug in that simulates a ground fault.



My ancient GFCI receptacle has a built in TEST button... which I think I last tried maybe 30 years ago.

Notorio SEP 18, 12:13 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

My ancient GFCI receptacle has a built in TEST button... which I think I last tried maybe 30 years ago.



I'm sure we'll get an actual electrician chime in here to correct me, but I think that the TEST buttons are not recommended for testing. There is a plug-in device that simulates a ground fault at the doesn't-kill-a-human level. My vague memory of electrical safety training is that the TEST buttons create a fault above the kill level. You want your GFCI to trip out below that level, otherwise the 'protection' is useless. Apparently an aging GFCI increases its trip-out level over time so there is a recommended replacement frequency that is surprisingly short.
Patrick SEP 18, 12:24 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:

Apparently an aging GFCI increases its trip-out level over time so there is a recommended replacement frequency that is surprisingly short.



I believe you're correct on all counts... but I suspect the Ogre will be along shortly to school us all on the matter.
theogre SEP 18, 01:21 AM

quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I believe you're correct on all counts... but I suspect the Ogre will be along shortly to school us all on the matter.


Yes, you can string outlets Downstream of GFCI...

While may pass code inspection in some places w/ this setup is bad move to have external outlet(s)/receptacle(s) on same circuits w/ bathroom and other rooms.

Loads outside is often 13+ amps for a lawnmower and other tools or cooking things and easy trip 15a or 20a breaker w/ someone running a hair dryer, M-wave, etc inside at same time.

And regardless of people saying a breaker trip isn't a problem... You Do Not want repeated trips because breakers are not switches and "wear out" fast. Even actual switches wear out. Faster with any Inductive loads from Motors, FL and other Ballasts, etc.
Example: Is Why Many have to replace switches for Garbage Disposals every couple years. Faster w/ 3/4 or 1HP units. Because standard wall switches including high$ Hubble etc burn out controlling motors.

Worse, Outside outlets etc often have problems w/ moisture and bugs even when have the best "weather proof" covers. That alone can trip Inside GFCI repeatedly and kill them.
You should check all outlets "downstream" of the new GFCI and means taking covers off and pull the outlet to look at the wiring etc. If have Back Stabbing then Replace and use Commercial Grade parts and side or back wires. No, isn't the same thing as Back Stabbing. If the cover are > 7-10 years often need replacing too. Cheap covers often don't even last ~ 5 years before parts fail to seal. That's ignoring many have crap plugged in 24/7 and many covers aren't made for this and worse.

That's why I have a Dedicated 20a Breaker and 12awg wire to a single 20a GFCI outside that is Tamper and Weather Resistance part too. (Leviton but not sure on Model right now.) WR GFCI often help bathroom installs to last better then plane GFCI.
Plus when I'm not using that outlet... Can turn off the breaker so kids and morons can't suck power. Turn off w/o a load the breaker won't care. Isn't same thing as Tripping a breaker off or turning off w/ load and arcing in it.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-18-2022).]

Patrick SEP 18, 02:05 AM

I've probably broken every rule. Thanks for the info, Ogre.
theogre SEP 18, 02:28 AM

quote
Originally posted by Notorio:
I'm sure we'll get an actual electrician chime in here to correct me, but I think that the TEST buttons are not recommended for testing. There is a plug-in device that simulates a ground fault at the doesn't-kill-a-human level. My vague memory of electrical safety training is that the TEST buttons create a fault above the kill level. You want your GFCI to trip out below that level, otherwise the 'protection' is useless. Apparently an aging GFCI increases its trip-out level over time so there is a recommended replacement frequency that is surprisingly short.

GFCI Test button and most other testers should trip before would kill you. All use same method that uses a resistor between Neutral and Ground to Trip the GFCI.
If the Test button fails then GFCI is Bad. If good testers that plug in fails, GFCI is Bad. Do Not buy Off Brand outlet testers as many are make wrong and don't trip w/in specs.

But is several issues w/ downstream outlets.
Some are problems above making repeated trips for the GFCI or even the Breaker.
Worse iffy wiring and other parts make the GFCI fail to trip.

There are plugin testers to help test downstream outlets better then the one button testers but often isn't normal thing to see @ HD Lowes etc.
I have an old one w/ several trip points but rarely use and have to look @ direction every time. Right now can't even find the PDF for it.

At minimum... get one button testers and use on every downstream of the GFCI. If fail to trip... wires outlet or both have problems.
CoolBlue87GT SEP 18, 08:06 AM

quote
Originally posted by theogre:
You should check all outlets "downstream" of the new GFCI and means taking covers off and pull the outlet to look at the wiring etc.



Thanks for the good info. I used a Leviton CFGI outlet, has the led. Used the side screws. I did replace my outside outlets when I moved in, as one was broken. New outlets use side screws and has marine grade outside covers.