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| Rant about Calif. smog cutoff (1975) (Page 1/1) |
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Kitskaboodle
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APR 10, 08:47 PM
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The more I go to car shows here in my area, the more I get mad at the unfairness and foolishness of the California smog exempt law. Here is why:
As I walk around and look at all the engine modifications of the pre-75 cars, I pondered this: I take my Fiero’s to car shows all the time, just like the pre-75 car owners. And obviously, pre-75 cars are FAR MORE prevelant at car shows than any 80’s car that show up yet their cars are far more polluting than we are. It seems to me that despite the California Legislature’s supposed stance / preaching on strict emission guidelines, testing, etc., they now have tons of pre-75 car guys going to car shows and polluting the air. It should be a level playing field. My 80’s car has to comply with very strict emissions guidelines. Why don’t theirs? (many of these cars have modified engines and are far from stock) I understand that most pre-75 cars don’t have cats, 02 sensors, egr valves, etc but if the eco freaks In Sacramento really cared about ALL car emissions (and figured this all out) they should not / would not allow any engine modifications, period for anything, any year. (Can you say, “factory stock”? Sure you can….)
Kit[This message has been edited by Kitskaboodle (edited 04-10-2024).]
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82-T/A [At Work]
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APR 10, 08:55 PM
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| quote | Originally posted by Kitskaboodle:
The more I go to car shows here in my area, the more I get mad at the unfairness and foolishness of the California smog exempt law. Here is why:
As I walk around and look at all the engine modifications of the pre-75 cars, I pondered this: I take my Fiero’s to car shows all the time, just like the pre-75 car owners. And obviously, pre-75 cars are FAR MORE prevelant at car shows than any 80’s car that show up yet their cars are far more polluting than we are. It seems to me that despite the California Legislature’s supposed stance / preaching on strict emission guidelines, testing, etc., they now have tons of pre-75 car guys going to car shows and polluting the air. It should be a level playing field. My 80’s car has to comply with very strict emissions guidelines. Why don’t theirs? I understand that most pre-75 cars don’t have cats, 02 sensors, egr valves, etc but if the eco freaks In Sacramento really cared about ALL car emissions (and figured this all out) they should not / would not allow any engine modifications, period for anything, any year. (Can you say, “factory stock”? Sure you can….)
Kit
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I'm happy to go into more detail in the P&R forum, but what Florida discovered is that these laws were only affecting the poor... that newer cars had higher standards and thus made up the majority of the vehicles on the road ... and as such, pollution just improved regardless. But the only people who generally owned older cars were poor people (not really collector car people), and they couldn't afford to maintain them. So when they failed emissions in Florida, they lost their jobs, lost their means of transportation, and then in many cases, actually went to jail for driving on a suspended license (which would happen if you were driving a car that failed inspection, etc.). It became a reciprocal problem that directly affected the poor, and kept them poor.
They did away with all emissions and safety inspections back in 2000 I think it was. Since then, tuners and collectors are using modern technology to improve their cars, to the point where even though they're making significantly more power, they're also polluting less too.
With regard to what you're saying above... I don't think the solution is to punish pre-75 car owners too... but to stop punishing the post-75 car owners. California should have a sensical law that has a sliding window. If the car is considered a classic (25 years or older), then it doesn't have to meet the strict emissions laws. At 25 years old, it's old enough that if it's still around, it's probably a collector car. Their intent is lost by adhering to a strict 1975 and up emissions law.
I to think they have some exceptions though, where you're allowed to put a newer motor in, so long as you can meet the emissions of the newer motor? So like... you could put a roller 3400 motor from a 2004 Pontiac Grand Am or something in there, if I'm not mistaken.
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Notorio
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APR 10, 09:54 PM
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I 'second' the sliding window idea. In fact, early on that is how I understood the situation to be, but alas, no dice. There is apparently a Cosmic Law in effect that drives most Government Legislation to produce the opposite results of those intended.
But Kit, you are worrying about the wrong thing: the day is coming when gas stations will start to disappear in Kalifornia. Local children will tag you with negative Social Credit scores when they see you going by in your gasoline powered car. Activists will dox you for 'harming the environment.'
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theogre
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APR 11, 10:30 AM
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Kitskaboodle... You have not been following the situation. You see Car Shows but forget/ignore "clunkers 4 cash" & EPA & State laws & simple Business reasons you can't find older vehicles even just 15-20 years old in most "junk yards" now.
Even in many Red States have shut down or severely limit operations @ them because of Oil, coolant & more on the ground & in the air. Big Fires because many operators stack vehicles like Firewood. And more problems. And before having Fires w/ Batteries in EV & Hybrids after a wreck etc.
Even Yard that only deals w/ Insurance Totals & never the public have huge fires. Now told by State etc & Business Insurance to run the place that have to maintain buffer spaces to safely handle EV & Hybrids.
Has Been Illegal to remove Emissions Equipment in All of the U.S. but not Enforced in many places. NY DE PA & few others will Fail a car w/o or dead Cat etc. Currently EPA has gone after companies selling "Delete" parts &/or software. Then NJ & a few others other go after owners doing same.
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Jake_Dragon
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APR 11, 10:38 AM
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I loved my Fieros but if I could pick between a pristeen Fiero of any year and a daily driven late 60s early 70s Chevelle or Cuda it wouldn't even be a choice.
I was a teen in the 70s and that is when I fell in love with cars. A few old cars at a car show are not going to harm the environment as much as all of the cars sitting in a traffic jam on the 405 every morning and afternoon for 2 hours.
At some point we will not be able to license and drive old cars in California and we will be poorer for it. Next on the list is your Fiero. We are a dying breed and one day soon our love affair with the gas powered automobile will be over. Only the very rich will be able to maintain them. For the rest of us we will have to toe the line and conform.
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theogre
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APR 11, 10:44 AM
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| quote | Originally posted by Notorio:
But Kit, you are worrying about the wrong thing: the day is coming when gas stations will start to disappear in Kalifornia. Local children will tag you with negative Social Credit scores when they see you going by in your gasoline powered car. Activists will dox you for 'harming the environment.' |
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Yup, CA, NY, NJ and others are Brainwashing kids & more pushing EV but not to "save the planet" but control everyone as all EV and ICE will soon have Remove Kill that have Gov Control that can shut down your can @ their whims. More so w/ Uber et al that already can Ban anyone w/o notice @ their whims. Self Drive or Robo Taxi are not different in that way. GM OnStar claim can't do that only to save PR nightmare.
That ignoring....
Govmnt Knows EV will need a lot of charging & have no real plans to fix the charging problems. Just Biden etc saying will fix & dump Millions $ but know that won't help...
1. Obama, CA, NJ & others keeps shutting down the power plants & know "renewables" won't keep up. Plus have no plans Fixing or Expanding "The Grid" to allow Charging to work. CA already gets Brown Out & Black Out Now Because Has Shut Down power plants & Now Way "renewables" will keep up power demands now then claim want more EV.
"But there already public charging..." Oh you might see "Fast Charging" or other charging but only get max power when only 1 or 2 stations are running. This is Why Tesla Chargers have Long Lines because real power "pack" often hidden can't charge @ higher amps @ every plug there.
Worse, Most others are same way + Many have Time limit too. So many see 7.5VA @ one place near me but that 7.5VA is Shared between 4 Plugs & when 2-4 are active barely charges any in the 3 Hour limit. This like many are "PR Stunts" that will never have enough "Grid Power" because local "grid" hasn't been "upgraded" in Decades or even Longer & can't handle big chargers.
Also, most "short buses" that disable etc can use in many place have same issue that few know about.
Driver can arrive early, you don't see etc, so Driver marks No Show & drives away & back end just see No Show & 3 No Show = Ban.
Drivers also drive the Longest Route to get A to B making people late for Dr, work, & more then have same problem getting home. And that's w/ 1 person. Having 2 or more is even worse & travel time can be 1 - several Hours. If you say anything, you get Banned because any Driver simply say "had problems" w/ you to main office.
Because Most Drivers want Lemming because want to drive w/o pickup/drop-off next rider. So always a "reason" to Never take shortest route.
"Charge @ Home..." Even if you have a Driveway/Garage to charge... Vast Majority of homes can't take Level 1 or 2 charging because home wiring setup &/or local "grid" won't handle this. Many homes w/ Gas/Oil heating often have < 100A Service from the "grid." Whatever X Amp Service can only safety handle 80% of that & also in Local & Nat Electric Codes.[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-11-2024).]
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RWDPLZ
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APR 11, 01:01 PM
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My biggest complaint with the general stupidity of it is that they restrict engine swaps basically completely. Yes there are waivers only the mega-rich can get. But as long as the car's emissions are the same OR LOWER as when it was manufactured, they should be allowed. Call it a green initiative to reduce pollution.
It's hard enough to find decent tires in these old sizes, and it's getting more difficult to find replacement parts to keep them going.
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cvxjet
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APR 11, 02:48 PM
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I get frustrated by some of it- but also know that we need to be able to....breath; back in the 70s we would travel up to WA to visit relatives often- when we left CA driving N on I-5 we could quickly tell we were in OR because of the smell...
Sometimes the rules are ridiculous- but I ran into a situation where CA EPA had done something kind of smart; I swapped a 5.0 FI engine into my '73 Mustang- of course, all of the electronics/system had to work properly- no codes set, etc
What was smart, tho was that CA-EPA actually did NOT want you to install a CAT....They realized that even without the Cat the engine would run cleaner than the old engine- but the danger of adding a Cat to a car that was not designed for it could lead to fires. (I actually was going to design a shield and put some insulation under the carpet in the spot above where I was going to mount the Cat (I do have some brains- somewhere....) Never added the cat....
One trick for old Mustangs- 1966-68....they actually had smog pumps on the 289s.......But the 71-73 302 had been "Improved" so did not need a smog pump. I was actually talking to a guy with a '68 who was frustrated by problems with the smog pump- He had never heard of the "Later 302 mod" and could not at first believe it. You really did not even have to do the actual swap- just go to the JY and grab the vacuum lines, etc and then make your 289 look (and run) like a later 302.[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 04-11-2024).]
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