Jebb? Is that you? (Page 1/17)
84Bill JUN 10, 04:12 PM

quote
From the US Constitution
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Here is another communist / nazi rule that the "party" has decided would best "help" society.

Though I agree with the "spirit" of this law I feel the law itself is nothing more than a form of forced labor. AS I SAID the cause is ok but there is an undelying problem.

I find the "problem" a bit troubeling personally

The Personal "Responsibility" and Work Oppertunity Act. (Public Law 104-193)
It states that any able bodied person between the ages of 18 and 50 without dependants must be "employed" at least 20 hr a week or participating in a "work" activity to recieve foodstamps (public welfare) benefits.

What this is indicating it that I must be employed and working the minimum hours OR "participating in a " work activity" to recieve public welfare.

Somehow it is worded in such a way that I can't quite grasp how they did it. It basically means I must avail myself to "work" community service. I really don't have a problem with volunterring my time and energy to a good cause BUT I do have a problem with not being "compensated" for it.

Where I came from mandatory community service was often "used" as a punnishment for offenders of minor crimes agains the community. It was designed to serve as a means of instilling civic duty into those that casued damage to it.

Now I will go and put my time into this because I feel it is a good cause BUT the luster and gratification has been stolen from me and that quite frankly it angers me; I will not benefit personally from performing such an activity.

My question is who does?
I "volunteered" to "work" for habitat for humanity.
It seems to be a wonderfull way to give something special to those in need and I am never above helping another person. All I get is satisfaction but that is only if I volunteer and in my case I did not choose too.

So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person?
How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services?
If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house?

Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers".

Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park?

Trolls spare us your BS

JRM-2M6 JUN 10, 05:24 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:

So how much does it cost to build the house that the government will buy at cost and give to a needy person?
How much to carpenters, sheet rockers, electricians or plumbers get per hour to perform 20 hrs a month for their services?
If it is all vollunteer work who really gets the 165,000 dollars total that would normally go to a builder and the contractors for this house?

Lastly, where does that money go? I sure as hell didn't get any of it and neither did any of the other "volunteers".

Is that dachshund I smell cooking or am I not even in the ball park?

Trolls spare us your BS


well hows this for BS
i think you just pointed out that government isnt the solution , its the problem
and that they can not be trusted when it comes to providing services for the needy, 1st off they are wasteful and usually payout more per program than the amount that would have been spent by a private non-prof. organization (where the skilled labor might be volunteers as well) who already provide such services.

so i think we agree on this issue .

SaLvAgEd JUN 10, 05:26 PM
oooh... I feel a discussion coming on!
loafer87gt JUN 10, 05:44 PM

quote
Originally posted by 84Bill:


What this is indicating it that I must be employed and working the minimum hours OR "participating in a " work activity" to recieve public welfare.


And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that it is wrong to make somebody who is putting strain on the welfare system work if they are so able to do so? The way I see it, this bill does two things: # 1, it gets them off their asses and makes them to something productive; and # 2, the fact that they are being forced to do some sort of service without additional pay might motivate them to enter the workforce and contribute to the betterment of society. Unless you have an honest to goodness job, think of your generous foodstamps and allowance as your paycheck. Personally, I am disgusted by indivduals in good health who refuse to participate in the workforce - it puts significant burden on the welfare system, taking valuable resources which could be better allocated to those in need. Call me a prude - but it doesn't make me too happy to see the tax dollars that I contributed through my hardwork going to somebody who is too lazy to get off their butt and pull their own load. Remember, the best social system is getting a job!!!!

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-10-2004).]

lurker JUN 10, 05:48 PM
i think i can see where this is going.
Wichita JUN 10, 05:56 PM
Cliff Pennock JUN 10, 06:02 PM
Oh cripes. Aren't there more suitable forums for this?
84Bill JUN 10, 06:10 PM

quote
Originally posted by loafer87gt:


And what is wrong with this? Are you saying that it is wrong to make somebody who is putting strain on the welfare system work if they are so able to do so? The way I see it, this bill does two things: # 1, it gets them off their asses and makes them to something productive; and # 2, the fact that they are being forced to do some sort of service without additional pay might motivate them to enter the workforce and contribute to the betterment of society. Unless you have an honest to goodness job, think of your generous foodstamps and allowance as your paycheck. Personally, I am disgusted by indivduals in good health who refuse to participate in the workforce - it puts significant burden on the welfare system, taking valuable resources which could be better allocated to those in need. Call me a prude - but it doesn't make me too happy to see the tax dollars that I contributed through my hardwork going to somebody who is too lazy to get off their butt and pull their own load. Remember, the best social system is getting a job!!!!


Once again I'll put your narrow minded goose stepping personal attacks aside and attempt to comunicate with what assemblance of reason remains.

1) You did not answer a single question with a proper answer.. did you attend school? It's a quiz not an inquisition so answer the questions ot poke your eyes out, I could care less.
2) As I indicated I don't have a problem with volunteering but I do have a problem with forced labor when gussied as a means of "bettering society"
3) I committed no crime against the community and am therefor not guilty of anything. So why is it I must serve society?

84Bill JUN 10, 06:14 PM

quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:

Oh cripes. Aren't there more suitable forums for this?


What makes you say that? Has the forum really gotten that uncivilized?

Steve Normington JUN 10, 06:20 PM
2) It is not forced labor. It is quid pro quo (this for that). You get assistance from the government and you work for a community project. You can opt out simply by not accepting foodstamps and then you won't have to work on habitat for humanity.
3) Society is helping you by providing food stamps. This law says that you have to return some of that help.

There is no $165,000 going to anybody. That money would only exist if the house was sold to a non-needy family that took out a mortgage. The needy family is either paying a reduced amount (like $10,000) or nothing. If they pay a reduced amount, that would probably be used to pay off some of the costs associated with this program. If you really want to find out what is going on, use the Freedom of Information act to find the governmental records associated with HFH.