Lopsided chops? (Page 1/103)
jmbishop AUG 27, 12:19 AM
Since we can't stay on topic in the glass window thread I have decided to start a new thread in hopes that we can stop cluttering the other thread. So far its been "he said she said", Madcurl has ignored my suggestions to give us some proof that at least some of his chops are symetrical, and MustangsBware has some how been accused of somehow not taking care of Wills car.


Right now the closest we have to a answer was provided by jscott1

Unfortunately this is not definitive enough, the only way this issue will get closure is to break out the measuring tape on the cars said to be off.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 08-27-2008).]

MstangsBware AUG 27, 12:40 AM

quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:






Would help if the line used for the measurements on the car where straight.
jmbishop AUG 27, 01:05 AM
I do see is what could be a gap (impossible to tell for sure with that resolution) in the bottom right corner.

[This message has been edited by jmbishop (edited 08-27-2008).]

86GT3.4DOHC AUG 27, 01:33 AM
I dont think this is your purpose, but Its completely irrellevant to do anything to a low rez picture like that, on top of everything else, if the camera was not at exactly 90* to the car, say it was at 80*, then the picture will look straight, but the object will appear shorter and smaller on the far side of the frame.

I havent been in this "other thread" but this sounds to me like little more than someone trying to start crap about someone elses work for no reason, and unless you have done better yourself, you dont even have any room to comment, not unless you sit a can of pop on the roof and it slides off to the side.

If you have to break out a protracter and micrometer to figure out if its wrong, its good enough.
Miach AUG 27, 03:08 AM
Pop can idea won't work either. You can't be 100% sure the car is level being either the ground it sits on or the suspension it rides on. Personally if the naked eye can't see the flaw then why worry about it. If you think the car is off maybe you should check your house. Square and plum in a new house is a radical idea lol. Not to mention perfection can not be obtained by mere humans, we just were not built for that.

Chops are in fact CUSTOM work and with that in mind it will not be perfect unless you never want your car back. Wish I could afford a chop top.
jmbishop AUG 27, 03:18 AM
Yes, its true, You can't expect a chop to be perfect. You can measure a a stock roof and it won't be perfect. The issue here is that 3 people have seen choptops from Archie that they claim has obviously weren't symmetrical. This is not a problem as long as the owners of the cars are happy and the only reason we are discussing this is because people had problems with other people stating what they observed.
jscott1 AUG 27, 03:19 AM

quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
Would help if the line used for the measurements on the car where straight.



Just so you know how that drawing was created...

I boxed in the Stinger, as best I could using reference points as best I could see them. Given that the picture was probably not taken from a point perfectly orthogonal to the car, or to the ground...the lines are not guaranteed to be straight. But they are parallel.

The X1, Y1, and Z1 were copied and pasted such that X1 = X2, Y1= Y2, and X1= X2 by Definition.

Then I placed those identical lines on the reference points and within the constraints of the resolution of that drawing the points lined up. I admit that any discrepancy on a scale drawing (photograph) is going to be orders of magnitude smaller than on the real thing. But it was stated that it was visible in photographs. I can't see any photographic evidence from the photos that we have to work with.

86GT3.4DOHC AUG 27, 03:43 AM

quote
Originally posted by Miach:

Pop can idea won't work either. You can't be 100% sure the car is level being either the ground it sits on or the suspension it rides on. Personally if the naked eye can't see the flaw then why worry about it. If you think the car is off maybe you should check your house. Square and plum in a new house is a radical idea lol. Not to mention perfection can not be obtained by mere humans, we just were not built for that.

Chops are in fact CUSTOM work and with that in mind it will not be perfect unless you never want your car back. Wish I could afford a chop top.



I didnt mean roll, I meant SLIDE. Granted thats a bit of an exageration, still, unless people walk by the car and ask eachother what the hell happened to that poor thing, its not something to qibble about unless someone themselves says they have personally built something better.
MstangsBware AUG 27, 03:47 AM

quote
Originally posted by jscott1:


Just so you know how that drawing was created...

I boxed in the Stinger, as best I could using reference points as best I could see them. Given that the picture was probably not taken from a point perfectly orthogonal to the car, or to the ground...the lines are not guaranteed to be straight. But they are parallel.

The X1, Y1, and Z1 were copied and pasted such that X1 = X2, Y1= Y2, and X1= X2 by Definition.

Then I placed those identical lines on the reference points and within the constraints of the resolution of that drawing the points lined up. I admit that any discrepancy on a scale drawing (photograph) is going to be orders of magnitude smaller than on the real thing. But it was stated that it was visible in photographs. I can't see any photographic evidence from the photos that we have to work with.




Hell I really don't care--The whole issue is not with the Stinger but with Will's car but I did see the same issue in the Stinger. Its not my car so I am not going to worry with it till Will gets the car and he looks it over. Then he can state it himself that the car is indeed not right and that should be enough proof for everyone, even the dedicated Archee followers that believe he can do no wrong. All I can say is that I know what I saw the last time I looked at the car and even the guy that was there next to me saw it as soon as I said something.
Miach AUG 27, 04:10 AM
Ok lets say the top is off. Wouldn't a simple measurement of the triangle side glass show this? I mean the little glass behind the door windows or even the back glass and its frame. I personally have yet to see a chop in person so I can offer no testament but I can throw ideas on how to check.

Pictures will fail, reason being was stated before, the camera has to be set at a perfect 90* and so does the car. The simple fact is there probably is NO car that sits perfectly on the ground. Think of a normal person sitting in a Geo Metro, its gonna lean. After time it will hold that lean. After 20 years (even with all new suspension) the car will still have a lean but not as strong as before. So now we know that the car will not sit "perfectly" on hopefully level ground. So a picture will not reveal a flaw unless the flaw is WAY out there.

One thing I do know for sure is optical illusions. When I did drywall finishing we had a job where pictures were to be mounted into the wall so they were flush. 16 pictures in 4 rows of 4. 1 foot by 1 foot squares. When viewed from a slight angle, and I mean very slight off center, the rows looked as if they leaned towards the side you were on "off center" and the further to the side you stood the lean got worse. Nothing like 8 grown men arguing over which way it leans lol. After 3 hours of measuring, using the 1 foot by 1 foot template, and just plain pulling our hair out we finally discovered it was our eyes. Could this also be the effect some are seeing based on where they stand vs. level of ground?

Only true way to find out if the tops are off is to measure measure measure, and only measure the car inside and out. To add variables like the ground, tire pressure, suspension height, and yes even lighting.