Ive been looking into buying my 1st Fiero, almost bought an '88 V6 auto this morning on ebay for $1,000, but I am wondering, why are they so heavy. I read they weigh in at 3500 lbs!

They look like they should weight about 1500 lbs. I know the engine block and heads are cast iron, but where is the rest of the weight coming from? Did they over-engineer the space frame? Are there lead weights hidden somewhere to hold down the front end?!

I've had several VW bugs and it use to be common to lighten them by taking off bumpers, using glass fenders, taking out the rear seat... I wonder if anyone has taken up the challenge of getting the dead wood out of their Fiero? If its the space frame you could take the body panels off and drill out the frame to lighten it. There isnt much you can do about the engine except replace it.

Which i was also wondering, Ive heard people have stuffed V8s into them, has anyone found a ligher engine, transmission, that will increase the HP to weight ratio by taking out some of the weight, alum block / head...? Has anyone ever looked into the possibility of putting a Saturn engine into a Fiero? My '94 SL2 is pretty quick, and I think its cranking out 125 or 130HP, not bad for a 4 cylinder.

I know most people want to keep their cars collectable, which limits the mods you can make. In the same spirit that I had when I use to crank up the HP on aircooled VWs to twice the stock rating, and modified the car to make it light and handle better, Im interested to know if any Fiero owners have been down this path.

I'd have to double check the Hayne's manual but if I remember right the curb weight on my 85 GT which is a V-6 is only 2400 lbs or so. The 3500 must have been a guess.

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'85 GT "The GoCart"

Welcome to the forum. As far as the 3500# estimate, yeah, that's a bit overboard. My 86 GT is around 2700 wet. Which is still quite porky for a car it's size, but you are on the money regarding the space frame contributing to weight. It does make it a lot safer though.

My '88 GT weighs in at a hair over 2800lbs, and that is considered one of, if not, the heaviest Fiero model.

Ive been reading a lot of stuff from the web in the last week or so, I guess the page that reported the 3500lbs must be off, but even 2800 seems quite a bit high for a 2 passenger car.

mine is a V8 4.9 and wieghts in at 2435 on the scales

thats pretty lite, wished my v8 weight only that much??

Ken, yes they probably "over-engineered" the frame, but for good reason. These little cars have to do battle on the roads with much bigger vehicle. I won't want it any other way. As for a lighter weight V8, the Caddy Northstar is the engine to get if you want high tech, light weight, and 8 cylinders.

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BATBOY
1985 SE auto with 350 Chevy V8 (Batmobile),
suspension mods, lowered, GA brakes, battery
relocated up front, stereo mods, etc...

Yeah the frame is the major heavy part. I just wish Alcan would have produced those alumninum frames. If it was just around 2300-2400 lbs. I would be happy.

Do you know the heaviest stock Fiero off all?
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A fully loaded 88 GT with t-tops.
the tops add 82 lbs. to the weight
that is listed on your door tag, GM did not
take this into account when tagging those Fieros.

[This message has been edited by fieroparts.com (edited 04-15-2001).]

[This message has been edited by fieroparts.com (edited 04-16-2001).]

I think that some of these V8 guys are pushing 3200 w/ driver.

My '86 SE w/ '88 front suspension weighed 2750. I haven't weighed my '87 GT yet.

The Northstar may be a light engine, but it's light weight is entirely negated by the 4T80E transmission, which adds 200 lbs over the Getrag 5 spd.

The SL2 weighs about 2400 lbs and the engine and transmission are matched to each other. something that Pontiac couldn't do in 84 within the budget they had.

My 4 cylinder 85SE Fiero (92 hp, 140 f/lb torque) drives about like my cousin's SL1 (87 hp, 135 f/lb torque) for acceleration and cruising. The power to weight ratio etc is very close. Of course the Fiero handles better than even a highly modified SC2!! (to the dismay of my son!!) You cannot beat mid-engine design for balance when negotiating "dangerous curves".

The Saturn engine is too small to power the Fiero ... their newer 2.2 liter DOHC might be better but by the time you swap to another 4 cylinder you can have a V-8 or a v-6. It is much easier to swap an engine than to lighten the space frame.

Space frame is a lot more complicated than the Unibody or even Body-on-Frame. Before you look at it: remember the space frame is like a suspension bridge: change the design in the wrong way and you could wind up with a "Tacoma Narrows" version of the car. http://maclab.alfred.edu/students/harttm/default.html

Easier to swap engine.

[This message has been edited by Tryxalon (edited 04-15-2001).]

If you guys think 2700 lbs. is heavy for a two seat mid engine car than take a look at the more up to date sports cars out there that are similar in size to the fiero. The Honda S200 weights about 2700 bls, the Porsche Boxter weights around 3000 lbs., the Corvette weighs over 3000 lbs., and the BMW M5 is also around the same weight. These sports cars have some of the best handling you can get for the money new yet they are just as heavy as the fiero and actually most of them are heavier than the fiero. My fiero formula weighs 2710 lbs.

As for engines there are Cadillac Northstar v8's, smallblock Chevy v8's, Camaro 3.4-liter v6's, 3800 and supercharged 3800 v6's, quad four engines, turbocahrged and supercharged 2.8-liter v6 engines, and the list goes on and on. Go through the search archives here on the forum and you will find some of the best information you will ever find on this car anywhere. You can also pick up the latest issue of Hot Rod magazine and see Phil’s supercharged 3800 fiero formula with 222 horsepower at the wheels. As you search through the archives you will find that the after market for the fiero is really thriving and large.

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I had my car weighed last year at an Autocross Came to 2767 with a full tank of gas , no spare tire.

our 1994 911 RSA Came in at 2667 lbs , 87 corvette z51 3291lbs

NEw 911's weigh in at 3300lbs , new vettes about the same , supercars keep gettin heavier. A fiero with a aqluminum head 350 only weighs in at a hair under 2900lbs (GT Fast back)

The Northstar engine weighs 464lbs complete + a whopping 300lbs for the tranny
a Aluminum head SBC weighs in at 500lbs , I can't see a fiero tranny weighing much more than 100lbs , they seem tiny...

The heavy part is the boat anchor of a 2.8 and the space frame construction.

JM

If you want a lighter engine, go for a quad 4 HO. DOHC, 180 hp. High revver.

Curb weight of an 85 GT (according to the book) is 2572 lbs. I forget if curb weight is with a full tank of gas or what...

The main thing you want to consider when talking about weight in any car is the power to weight ratio. Lets say you have an 91 Vette engine in an 88 GT (we did) and that the engine is estimated at 330 hp (278 at the wheel) and that the Fiero weighed in at 2910 lbs (how Bubba can make a Fiero with a V8 lighter than an 84 coupe is mystical)The power to weight ratio on that Fiero went from (Im trying to remember now) something like a 19 to 1 for a stock Fiero down to an around 9 to 1 (Im trying to find my paperwork with the calculations but it was down in Viper territory) weight doesn't mean that much when considered that way. Though having the space frame taking some incredible hits (as we've seen on this forum) and having the driver survive is worth more than the 400 hp MR-2 with no spaceframe protection!

Knowing that I have some protection around me when I need it give me comfort and makes it that much more safer when you start running with the big boys with power.

quote Originally posted by Standard: If you want a lighter engine, go for a quad 4 HO. DOHC, 180 hp. High revver.

Ok you lost me on this one, HO = High octane?! Honda Oddisy? Hydrogen/oxygen?

Which donor car has a 4 cylinder 180Hp engine?

quote Originally posted by Ken Wittlief: Ok you lost me on this one, HO = High octane?! Honda Oddisy? Hydrogen/oxygen? Which donor car has a 4 cylinder 180Hp engine?

High Output. The late 80's early 90's Grand Am GT's should have a good chance at having the Quad4 HO. I'm sure someone will post exact years soon.

yes, HO = High Output. I believe 90-92 were the best years out there. Look for an Olds with the W41 package, or the Grand Am GT's like Formula said.

strip it remove a/c, heater,glass,insulation
radio, speakers,trim, carpets,inerliners,inside lites+wires ect
that should get you near 2000 lbs.

my book shows 84 coupe is litest at 2464 lbs, 88 GT is heaviest at 2735 lbs. 86 SE 4 cyl is about midway at 2531 pnds.

88, the Corvette is closer to 4000 lbs equiped. I think just a fender is close to 150 lbs.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-16-2001).]

Well it has just a tad over 300 lbs of plastic hung off a frame of roughly 625 maybe a shad more, then throw in engine tranny wheels a few pounds worth of wireing an A/C compressor and plumbing and a few other odds and ends Glass seats sound suppression ect. you'll end up with a ball park figure of just over 3000 pounds My 88 weighs in at 1820 rear 1271 front total 3091 lbs. It is a std Ole duke 4 banger coupe auto no power and A/C

[This message has been edited by 84Bill (edited 04-16-2001).]

Just don't remove the bars in the doors!!!! one guy on a fiero mailing list got this "brilliant" idea to remove the heavy metal bars in the doors, to make his car lighter... I don't know what happened with him, hopefully he hasn't been t-boned and crushed since he removed his side impact beams...

if you want more power, get a bigger engine or a turbo. trying to remove parts of the frame is just stupid and dangerous, though removing stuff like the AC etc is quite common. I wouldn't want to drive a car with a stripped interior, that's a little too ghetto for me.

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

quote Originally posted by WKDFIRO: Curb weight of an 85 GT (according to the book) is 2572 lbs. I forget if curb weight is with a full tank of gas or what... The main thing you want to consider when talking about weight in any car is the power to weight ratio. Lets say you have an 91 Vette engine in an 88 GT (we did) and that the engine is estimated at 330 hp (278 at the wheel) and that the Fiero weighed in at 2910 lbs (how Bubba can make a Fiero with a V8 lighter than an 84 coupe is mystical)The power to weight ratio on that Fiero went from (Im trying to remember now) something like a 19 to 1 for a stock Fiero down to an around 9 to 1 (Im trying to find my paperwork with the calculations but it was down in Viper territory) weight doesn't mean that much when considered that way. Though having the space frame taking some incredible hits (as we've seen on this forum) and having the driver survive is worth more than the 400 hp MR-2 with no spaceframe protection! Knowing that I have some protection around me when I need it give me comfort and makes it that much more safer when you start running with the big boys with power.

If you're only looking at acceleration, then yes, power to weight is what matters. If you look at handling, then weight matters. This is due to the non-linear traction curve that tires have: for instance, going from 50 to 100 lbs of vertical load on a tire may get you 50 more lbs of lateral holding force, but going from 100 to 150 lbs of load would only get you 40 more lbs of lateral holding force.

Okay, from some of the responses I am getting the impression the space frame was indeed overengineered for a 100HP drive train, two passenger car.

When I first read that people were sticking V8s in them I thought, are these people nuts?!

But if the frame and suspension is up to the task it sounds like a logical way to go, esp if the replacement engine is mostly alum.

Im also getting the impression that every front wheel drivetrain that GM makes will fit in a fiero?! (ok Im exaggerating here, but not too much: the caddy northstar, the 6000, the grandam HO 4, the camero...)

Okay, another sort of related question then, if you are planning on buying a Fiero and upgrading the drivetrain are you better off getting a car with the 4 clyinder engine, since you will be replacing it anyway?

Are there any 'real' differences in the rest of the formulas or GTs besides the drivetrain that are significant? Im getting the impression that a base model '88 might be the better way to go.

Also does the wing on the tail of the car do anything besides look cool and make wind noise? I've heard that tail wings and whale tails dont really provide any handling improvements until you get up around 90mph.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: 88, the Corvette is closer to 4000 lbs equiped. I think just a fender is close to 150 lbs.

I had my 87 Weighed in last year at an autocross , came to 3291lbs , thats where I got the number. 88's had different rear suspension and larger wheels , but otherwise remained the same , don't think that it added 700 some odd pounds to the car.

JM

I weighed my car, It is a 87 coupe with a 85 2.8 liter auto. I removed all the ac stuff, but added a speaker box and 12" sub in the front trunk. With me in it and a tank of gas it weighs 2850.

my '95 pontiac grand am has a quad 4, its a 150 HP engine for this model, and I've had little trouble with it.

I can just imagine it in a fiero, not a V-8 but still that would be cool.

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'85 Fiero Sport Coupe
'95 Pontiac Grand AM SE