Hey there. I am contemplating of getting some more HP out my 2.8L 86 GT. I was going to do a 3.4L, then a 3.8L S/C, then a 3.4L, then a turbo, etc. All of these are too expensive for me. I guess the 3.4L would be the cheapest option for me, but I don't have anyone around there to install it for me, and I can't do it myself. A turbo is also a good one, but it's $3000 for a kit; I wouldn't be able to build a setup myself. I also heard by Predator that his turbo kit (Design One; stages 1&2) only gets him ~165 HP and 210 lbs/ft. Now, my question is: what are some cheaper mods that I can do to the 2.8L to gain some more HP? Short of N2O, I should say. I mean, like a K&N filter, etc. It would be ideal to gain 165 and 210 for cheaper than a turbo, as well as getting a <7 second 0-60 time. I hope you understand; sometimes it's hard to. Please give me some ideas. Thanks a lot!
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08:30 PM
PFF
System Bot
88formula Member
Posts: 2361 From: Worcester, MA Registered: Oct 1999
You could install the high performance heads that the fiero store sells with the SI valves. You could have someone install a camshaft for you. The Crane 2030 would be a good choice for the 2.8-liter engine or the Crane powermax H-260-2. The fierostore also sells a high capacity ignition coil and underdrive pulley. FOCOA headers would be better but the Sprint manifolds are a good choice. The Borla exhaust system is a great exhaust system and according to Fiero parts the borla exhaust system is good for 7 horsepower. http://www.leaderind.comhttp://www.fieroparts.com Let this one load http://www.angelfire.com/biz/fierosails/info.html#Turbochargers
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[This message has been edited by 88formula (edited 04-29-2001).]
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09:24 PM
Spektyr Member
Posts: 558 From: Wichita, Ks. USA Registered: Apr 2001
I'd recommend the underdrive pully for starters. Most people I've heard claim it's the best hp for the buck. About 80 dollars and give approx 10hp.
I haven't gotten mine yet, but it's the next thing on my list.
------------------ 85 GT (to be modified...) --Um, no the paint isn't oxidized, that's the ultra-rare Whirlpool White textured finish... yeah. 89 Lincoln Town Car (has Fiero Envy) --Hey! Can I have an anti-sway bar too?
I guess you're right. Oh wait a minute, no you're not. Personally, I would rather have a 140 HP stock Fiero than a tad less than 100. I'd rather have an 8 second 0-60 than an 11. I'd rather have my Fiero not on fire. I'd rather have a lot of things, but not an Iron Duke. Thanks a lot.
By the way, thanks for bumping the post to the top with your mindless crap. I really appreciate it, and I really appreciate your insight. Thanks!!!
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11:39 PM
Mach10 Member
Posts: 7375 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Jan 2001
Wow, what(troll) an (troll) interesting (troll) name, "I HATE V6 FIEROS"
I'd try a hotter Cam, and some roller-tips. If you can take the engine apart, get the crank and pistons balanced and blue-printed. all these shouldn't cost you more than 1000 bucks, and should yeild some decent performance gains...
Okay, I've compiled a list of some *little* things. So, here it is:
-Port manifolds -Polish heads -larger throttle body ? -power pulley kit (Fiero Store) -performance valve spring set ? (Fiero Store) -cold air intake (Chris West) -velocity tube (Chris West) -Super Exhaust Headers (Chris West)
That's it for now. You can add if you wish; I'd love to hear more from you, I HATE V6 Fieros. I was wondering one thing; If I were to get the Super Exhaust Headers from Chris West, should I go with the 1024 steel tubing or the 314 stainless? I also was wondering if you, 88formula, would please run these mods through your desktop dyno thing. You don't have to, but I would really appreciate it. I'm in no hurry either. Thanks a lot!
Custom Intake setup - $30 (http://grinthock.2y.net/87intake.html) High Stall Torque Converter (It's an auto!) Crane Cam Port Exhaust manifolds (cut out restrictors) High Flow Cat External High Performance Tranny Cooler
Planned? YES a turbo in the future but for now this is a list of the items I have done so far, the Cam is ok but the darn engine has to come OUT to install it... I am planning an underdrive pully now, because of what I have heard here!!
You guys are going to be SO mad at me! Guess what? I changed my mind again. I think I am now going to stay with my original idea, to turbo a 3.4L pushrod. I was thinking about it, and my V6 has around 64K on it. This isn't much when you think about it, but I've heard that most crap out around 100K. If I were to pay ~$1500 on these smaller mods, I would risk the engine going a few years down the path. Also, if the engine were to go, I would still want to swap in a 3.4L. Then I would have all these 2.8L parts lying around in a crappy engine. Oh well. I am still planning to get a few minor things to improve performance. These would be:
-a cold air intake setup -velocity tube -a big bore throttle body -power pulley kit -performance auto shift kit
All this totals around $400, not too bad when I can get a little more power. I'd also be able to keep most, if not all, of these if I switch to the 3.4L. 88formula, I was wondering if you could please figure out the HP, torque, and 0-60 times for these minor additions. Thanks a lot!
------------------ Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.
mmmmmmmmmmm What distraught four cylinder fiero owner who may have said they will never post on the forum again might register as a new member and start this childish crap? I wonder? Could it be _______________________? Naaaaaa it couldn't!
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09:36 PM
saleenfiero Member
Posts: 451 From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, CANADA Registered: Sep 2000
If you put an underdrive on a fiero with a big stereo (as in heavy alternator usage), would it still be able to put out? I am also worried about the possibility of overheating and other belt accessories not working as good. And as for this hating V6 fieros, damn, is there nothing better to fight about other than b1tching against each other? You think people with a 2.8 got egos? Go check out viperclub.org or the mustang forums....they think their cars are gods gift to the earth.
------------------ '86 SE - My car is actually a MacLaren F1 with a Fiero body kit; or not.
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09:55 PM
rogergarrison Member
Posts: 49601 From: A Western Caribbean Island/ Columbus, Ohio Registered: Apr 99
I'd like to point out that the HP figures for the turbo you have above are rear wheel HP. The 3.4 is rated at 160 HP at the crank. There's abig differnece there. Or that turbos pretty weak.
As for the 4cyl guy, he's just trying to get a rise out of you guys, just ignore him. As if we Fiero owners don't get enough crap from other car owners, now we are going to start fighting with each other. :~(
------------------ Dave Gunsul N.I.F.E. member 86 GT modified 85 SE daily driver
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10:22 PM
fyerstarter Member
Posts: 355 From: oxnard, ca, USA Registered: Mar 2001
Fropuff, your not going to get much use out of a velocity tube AND a cold air intake. It's basically one or the other. The velocity tube connects from the vent to the stock air cannister and the intake replaces the whole deal. I would recommend the intake
Chris or Eric correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh yeah, I believe the 3.4 block is very similar to the 2.8 I think you even use the same ignition, ecm, intake manifold, etc. That means you can re-use your intake, ingition , computer chip, headers, throttle body, underdrive pulleys (im not sure about these), etc. if you decide to go for the 3.4 swap later
So, basically, the turbo gets 160 at the wheels, but the 3.4 gets 160 at the crank, but significantly less at the wheels? I wish I could go with a turbo, but I don't want to buy a kit. If there's anyone out there that knows turbos, please email me. Thanks a lot!
the turbo is going to get really expensive, even after installation. a total kit is the best, but even then there's the test and tune phase that involves hours of dyno time if it's done right. this is not speaking from experience. i just think it crowds the engine compartment and the rewards aren't that great. i have a superb 3.1 stroker that has a monster overbore and all the mods you can think of. the performance heads are worth the time and money. that's where your power's at. i decided against the performance pulleys after some friends with cars other than fieros had BAD experiences with the alternator, water pump, etc. I would rather have a semi-fast clean running engine than one that will go really fast a couple of times and might get you back home. if i could do it all again?? engine swap. without a doubt.
[This message has been edited by 80's BOY (edited 05-01-2001).]
You mentioned you are going to use a performance SHIFT KIT so I am assuming you have an AUTO... Like I, I have a 87 GT Auto. I put in a higher stall Torque Converter, hurt my top end speed but added Torque, much better accelleration, also if you add a SHIFT kit or a different TQ, add a external Cooler... Like I did, Joe at FieroShop mentioned that if you are going to drive it harder than normal, with a shift kit and a TQ then it's going to get hotter than normal, he said it was'nt TOTALLY necessary but that it would save my tranny in the long run, so I did it, it was only $100 installed.
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02:01 AM
PFF
System Bot
Standard Member
Posts: 4667 From: St. Cloud, MN Registered: Apr 99
V6's crap out at 100k? Mine has 157,000 and it'll still spin the 225's I have on, and it's survived more than a few 5500 rpm shifts. The key is maintenance!
I'd just do the 3.4, port the exhaust manifolds, do some work on the heads and put a cam in it.
Thanks for the replies. The only way that I would get a turbo is if I brought it to Archer's performance shop; they do turbos and stuff for Talons. I'm sure it would either match, or exceed, the $3000 Design One kit. I emailed one salvage yard here in MN, and there's a 3.4L pushrod from a Camaro; 56K miles, for $650 outright. I'm going to ask about a warranty. I MIGHT be able to do this myself, with the advise from you guys, of course. I am wondering one thing...if I were to get a 3.4L pushrod, what components do I need to get, aside from the block? I know I can use quite a few things from the Fiero, but I'm wondering what else I need. I was going to get a 3.1 stroker kit, but for $300 less, I can have a real 3.4L. Also, with the 3.4L, I can add almost whatever I want. By the way, I still would get a shift kit for my auto tranny, at least I might get a little better performance. Thanks a lot!
PS: Standard, I didn't mean that all V6 Fieros go at 100K, but since you've maintained yours, you get that extra 60K. That's pretty good! Just like all 4 cylinders don't start on fire!
Thanks again!
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04:41 PM
88formula Member
Posts: 2361 From: Worcester, MA Registered: Oct 1999
My friends wagon with the 2.8-liter engine went 300k before it quit. It tossed a connecting rod.
Ed Parks web site explains the whole process and what you need to swap the 3.4-liter engine in your car. The hardest part is relocating the starter holes. The rest is almost too easy. http://www.angelfire.com/on/fierofactory/start.html
If you do not have an 88 fiero than you need to acquire a neutrally balanced flywheel. 85-87 fieros have externally balanced engines.
Don't be to discouraged Fropuff, if you modify the 3.4 to about 200 HP you will probably get the same 160 HP to the wheels that you got with a turbo. Fieros only lose about 40-50 HP through the drivetrain.
------------------ Dave Gunsul N.I.F.E. member 86 GT modified 85 SE daily driver
Thanks for the reply. I read over Ed Parks' site, and I cut and pasted some things that I need to use/do. Here we go...
-Drill and tap starter mounting holes -Injectors (Mustang) -The bolt hole that takes the bolt from the pass side, lowest bellhousing one toward the trunk, is threaded in the 3.4 and needs to be drilled smooth. -The oil pressure sensor tube needs an adapter -Use cover and pan from 85-86 2.8. 3.4 dampner needs to aligned with the 2.8, and new timing mark cut. -Lower bellhousing bolt hole (trans side) is threaded on 3.4. Drill out threads for bolt coming from opposite direction to transaxle. -Reducer bushing necessary for oil sensor tube. -Clip wires from 3.4 cam and crank sensor; leave as plug. - Remove 3.4 oil cooler, and install 2.8 filter adapter. -3.4's need neutrally balanced flexplate/flywheel which 88 2.8's already have. -It also requires a Fiero water pump instead of the 3.4's.
Okay, all I got from that is that I can use the Fiero water pump, 88 flywheel, pan and cover. I already know that I can use the Fiero intake, computer, distributer, valve covers, exhaust, heads, etc. but I'm wondering if all I need is the 3.4L pushrod block itself, and nothing that comes with the 3.4L. After reading Ed's page, I see that really nothing is used from the 3.4. I'm wondering one more thing (for now)...do I need to get the 3.4L wiring harness with the engine as well? Thanks a lot for any help. I really appreciate it!
------------------ Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.
By the way, Dave, I've heard that just swapping the 3.4 gets around 160 HP. Using just the Fiero intake and computer, it yields ~25 more HP. That's 185 w/ no *real* mods. I'd get some other things that I was thinking of...the cold air intake, power pulley kit, auto shift kit, bored out throttle body, ported intake manifolds, MSD 6A box, etc., so I think it'd be relatively less than the $3000+ turbo kit to switch the 2.8 for a 3.4L, and a few smaller mods; I'd also get around the same HP output. Thanks again!
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08:28 PM
May 2nd, 2001
EdsB52 Member
Posts: 850 From: Tempe, Arizona, USA Registered: Jul 2000
My 3.4 conversion only got me 150hp at the wheels... I had ported heads and intake, sprint headers, 1.52 rockers, Crane 2030 cam, hollow cat, IRM dual exhaust, k&n air filter, 44psi at idle with 3.4 injectors.
I think you get more from a turbo...
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07:56 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
2.5" ex, ported stock manifolds, shaved heads, MSD, strange intake, 50psi on 305 camaro injectors... i've also shaved the intake track a bit over an inch and gained 6 more hp.. but kinda hurt the low end torque..
Why are you affraid of nitrous? i never had a problem with mine... (well i killed a couple clutches) www.fiero.nl/uploads/2m6dyno.jpg
Thanks for the replies. That 150 HP each of you guys have is at the wheels; the stock 2.8 puts out 140 at the crank; like 120 at the wheels. I'd also have more mods than you, lou, when I'm "done". The only thing I don't like about nitrous is that it is only there when I flip a switch; I want a car that can be quick all the time. I could do that with nitrous, but I'd spend $$$. I think I might stick with this idea. I found an engine here in MN for $650; complete minus the A/C pump, PS pump ( ), and the alternator. Is this a good price? What exactly do I need for the swap? Just the 3.4L block, and I can use all the Fiero stuff? I asked Galen, but I don't trust him. Thanks!
------------------ Fuzz busters are for those who are worried about being caught.
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04:20 PM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
Listen to the guys above Fropuff, there's no way the Fiero injection will add that much, if any, HP to the 3.4. Your other ideas will definately make a difference though. I just got a ported lower intake from Darrell Morse, you might want to give that a try too.
BTW what color is that Fiero above, it looks some what close to mine.
------------------ Dave Gunsul N.I.F.E. member 86 GT modified 85 SE daily driver
1FST2M6: I was wondering what kind of 0-60 you get with the mods that get you the 153 HP. (not including the NOS, of course.) That's at the wheels, too; pretty good. The 160 HP of the 3.4 will probably be reduced at least to 130 or 140, so that's pretty good, and not that "big" of modifications. I was wondeirng a few things...I was wondering what other mods, other than the ones you listed, you have. Also, I'm wondering what these modifications cost, if you don't mind saying. I'm kinda torn now. If I can get a pretty good 0-60 time, as well as torque numbers, without nitrous, I might just do the mods instead of the 3.4L. I might also go with the nitrous, if need be. I just want to do a 50 shot or something like that. Thanks a lot for any help. I know everyone's getting sick of my indecisiveness, but I'm sorry. Not much longer and I'll shut up. Thanks again!
Go with Nitrous. Just get some forged pistons, even a crank/rods if your willing to spend the bucks, just to be safe. I don't understand spending 4,000 on a turbo kit when the car is only worth around 3,000 without it. Its just not economical. Nitrous is the way to go...
Oh yeah Travis, which kit were you looking at specifically at the link you gave to Nitrous Wharehouse? They seem kinda expensive, I think the one from NOS is only like $500. I'm looking to get a kit within the next month.
[This message has been edited by Black88GT (edited 05-03-2001).]
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03:25 AM
lou_dias Member
Posts: 5337 From: Warwick, RI Registered: Jun 2000
Actually, I think a stock 2.8 new dynos at 110ph at the wheels so I got 40 extra rear wheel hp... I think it was well worth it and I had just over 203 ft*lbs of torque. And it was a very broad torque curve. Well worth it, but if you only want power when you need it, go with a turbo.
Combine my mods and 1fstm6's mods and who knows, maybe you could get 190rwhp...now that would be killer... Again, I had low compession (8.9:1) and ran 87 octane just fine. So I could have gotten more out of it and my exhaust wasn't "tuned" like trav's and I didn't have a "cold air" set up, I just ripped out the silencer and left it at that. He also had a shortened intake (I think) which promoted more HP and I still could have put on the bigger throttle body and an aluminum flywheel and a crank underdrive pulley. Also was running the ADS strip chip for the 2.8. Some real tuning there could give me more HP too.
A true 3.4 conversion costs $4000 if you do it right. By that I mean actually pay somebody to do it and replace those things you should but don't have to like a new clutch, O2 sensor, water pump, performance cam+lifters, new springs and pushrods, roller rockers...it adds up...
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08:09 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
the kit from nitrous warehouse is $449 plus shipping. (retail) i can get it for less through the shop.. www.fiero.nl/uploads/1fstdyno_manymods.jpg is what i'm at right now... i installed a ported and shortend intake pelenum set-up idea/brainstorm of Shaun41178s and that showed 6hp in the dyno but had a nasty hiccup below 3500 and the intake runners are being HOGGED to Hell-n-boch now to try and aleviate that. anywho.. list of my mods.. I can get actuall length measurements on my exhaust if i need to. but basicly.. 2.5" cat, 2.5" Brullen Muffler, and 4" 5Zidgen tip(soon to be 3"system), MSD 6A, NGK UR5 plugs, Accel ICM, custom (fun with a mandrel bender) intake. with 5" K&N from RS Akimoto (also available from www.cwestco.com - but theirs you don't have to cut a hole in the trunk) Trans-go shift kit from www.northernautoparts.com Fuel injectors form a wrecked camaro (305tpi)cleaned and dropped in. Nickel under the diaphram on the fuel rail, custom chip from the shops tuner. (no rev limiter and no force shift at 5500) ignition at TDC at WOT above 3500rpm, Shaved heads (.020), MAT sensor delete, aluminum cradle mounts (spare set for sale $200) No nitrous yet.. but belive me it'll be WAY better than the last set up.. WAY better.. true 100 shot not a pain 30 shot with psycho torque... i'm gunna have 300lbft again.. and at least 250hp... and if not.. i'll just have it once.. and bend a rod... I'm buying my long tube headers back from GT Bastard (no they aren't for sale to anyone else sorry..) and going balls to the wall nitrous. I've got rid of 2 T3s I've still got a new CT26-1 that'll support the car if i get bored with nitrous. and thanks to Ogre i've got lots of math to fix my Shotty brakes. in total everything-fast has run me about $2500... and my A/C still doens't work.. but RodrV6 and i are gunna have an A/C party one weekend and fix my 87 GT and His 88 GT at the same time..
and Gunsul,.. it's Lotus Limited edition Chrome Orange. (Orange with gold and blue pearl)
i'm not sure on the 0-60 time.. my 0-67 is 8.93 putting my slow @ss in the 15.1 in the 1/4mi. so mid to high 7seconds. (1/8mi time x 1.54=1/4mi time)www.fiero.nl/uploads/1fst9.jpg this has my 1/8th-mi. time slip on it... (car 321)
[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 05-03-2001).]
[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 05-02-2001).]
What the F*CK is that???? That's the dumbest thing I have EVERY SEEN in my life, why not just put it in the truck so it can suck ALL THE good oxygen out after 15 minutes so now the engine is CHOCKING, not to mention HEAT because there is no protection... WHAT in god's name made you do that!?
PLEASE give me some sort of intelligent explanation why that works, because quite frankly, it looks stupid and im-practical and a GREAT way to WRECK your trunk
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10:56 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
don't hold back tell me how your really feel!.. LOL.. i guess your not very familier with the cars then hunh.. there is a large hold 3.7"x5.3" on the passengerside of the trunk where the fan was installed on all the pre 88 cars. this lets the air in and it's protected from the water and heat cause it's on the passenger side where the exhaust isn't, and it's about 28" off the road. as for the heat in the trunk.. uum have you ever actually put a thermometer in there and drove around??? it RARELY gets above ambient temperature.. only in traffic will it creep up and even then only 10* or so. I droped 2 tenths off my 1/8 mile time with just this intake change. as for the waste of my trunk.. i never use it anyway.. my last car had the same MSD box and a nitrous bottle and a host of other goodies.. why have a toy if your gunna be practical? i could carless if my trunk was usable i want fast.. I had Fast before(13.6@103) and traded it for slow and a blank canvas. my blank canvas has found 53hp and 30+lbft at the wheels since my purchasing it. (103-132 to 153-168) it's a fiero.. who needs a trunk nothing fits in it anyway. It's not a car for a real week long road trip(except Phils).. i've driven it to Detriot (10hours @ 80) and my SE i drove to Florida a few times (atl to sandestin) 8ish hours and i've never had a heat problem in either car in the pseudo-trunk it has room for my single bag... in the event i HAVE to drive with more then me in the car for any period of time or to work or in the rain i've got an Alfa Romeo 164L a Saturn SC2 or a Miata i can choose from...
