How loud is it!? I wonder how it would work on a stock 2.8.

If you want to do a "better" one, I guess I could take the prototype off your hands. I want one.

That is one truely awesome modification. And the performance results are mind blowing. I would love to see how the dyno curves compare with the stock intake(maybe ported) and this intake system look? Cooter, I don't have a dyno, but i know 1fst2m6 does have access to one, you should send it over to him so we can see what this does to the power band on paper. I am totally thinking about making one now and doing the same, but i would love to see how yours looks. Again, Very Very cool!

Tim

I have spent most of today trying to get a chip to run this thing effectively. I have a new respect for the people who are actually able to do that! It is so frustrating to not be able to get it just right. I would love to get this thing to a dyno and see what it is really doing. I don't really believe the 203 HP that the G-tech says, but according to my math the 203 is 17% higher than the 167 baseline from last week. I can believe 17% a whole lot easier because that is about how much I have had to adjust the fuel table.
It is kind of hard to describe the sound- kind of like a quadrajet kicking it, but a higher pitch (or my alternator belt is slipping again).

Cooter, what kind of 0-60 times did you get on your G-Tech before and after?

Maybe now we can put an EATON supercharger inbetween those banks...and keep A/C...

quote Originally posted by Archie: As you noticed, I posted my positive message before he posted his...... if I'd have known that he was going to post positive then I would not have commented. Any apparent agreement is purely coincidental.

hehe.. I dunno, I can feel the love growing.

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Ray Webmaster of Fierolinks
"The price of love is tragedy"

Cooter,

Try using the stock chip with an Apexi S-afc
It intercepts the map sensor data and modifies it to correct for increased airflow, or bigger injectors. We use them all the time on DSM's here at my shop. They work great and are extremely user friendly. It should help you to get the best air-fuel mixture to maximize your power. Just a thought anyway.
Tim

I once built a bomb from pin-ball machine parts.

Messin with tables is a pain. I am so glad my TEC has datalogging.

Like someone else mentioned, you may need some longer runners to get some torque back.

Unless....

quote Originally posted by GT Bastard: I once built a bomb from pin-ball machine parts.

And the Lybians are still looking for you.

Cooter,
Looks great! Numbers really sound impressive.
Think it might be possible to have a "progressive" 2-barrel throttle body?
You'd have to join your two plenums, kind of like the Camaro intake. Engine demand would open the "secondary", kind of like a Quadrathreat. Might help the low end.

Galen,
I have a pinball machine in my basement.
It's ticking.
Should I be afraid?

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Raydar - aka Steve

Black 88 Formula.
Red 88 Duke coupe. "The Project"
88 Formula parts car. "The Donor"

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-22-2001).]

...Performance peaked out......sand, polish, sand, polish, polish, polish, polish....

Hey,that's very cool!
Have been doing some research so I can maybe try a similar manifold on my TDC.
The two separate plenums is something I would try also.The info I've been finding tells me that the diameter of the runners should be 85-90% of the valve diameter,and the length should be 10" for a 10,000rpm peak,and 1.7" longer for each 1,000rpm lower(from valve to end of runner).
The fact that you were able to get the extra 36hp says alot for the factory cam,and how undersized the 2.8 stuff is for true performance on a 3.4.The stock manifold may look nice,but...
I also have a mixture controlling device that allows instant changes while driving;makes for fast tuning compared to my old Weber carburetors or re-mapping with the tables.

I didn't know that the apex S-AFCs would work on something as old as the fiero

Call me a skeptic but 30+ hp from an intake? I would be interesting to get some dyno numbers.

The only question I have is how much would u charge me for you to build one for me!?
Seriously...

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Lance
Click Image to go to site.

quote Originally posted by Bob: Call me a skeptic but 30+ hp from an intake? I would be interesting to get some dyno numbers.

Here is a guy with the 3.4 DOHC motor. Doing a similar project, and he got 65 h.p.
http://fiero.cc/fiero-tdc/members/mws/intake/index.html

is it for sale? e-mail me please.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: And the Lybians are still looking for you.

Nice, I was going to say the same thing you beat me to it

Hey cooter,I think the setup may be easier to tune with a single throttle body,with the plumbing in Y formation,into your manifold.
This would eliminate the need to synchronise the two and you could probably use a V8 TB.
Just a thought.

If I had a 3.4 I might want one.

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• www.geocities.com/rmorgandotcom/

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: I have 3.1 and i modified a buick 3800 cover to fit on the stock pontiac intake. No one can figure out what it is, lol.

Got any pics?? I'd love to see that!

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steve@fieroproject.com
http://www.fieroproject.com

S-afc will work on MAP and MAF cars...

Exactly! Properly engineered parts are beautiful in the efficiency of their design. You can play around with asthetics, but the function must come first.

Scarry, i thought you had two mini cruise missles there. i was wondering if it was a road rage option. seriously, how exactly does this work? i have never seen anything ike this before, looks like picaso enginering at its best.(BTW, nice #) as i can only read a book, and fix a problem witrh a car, im not sure how these cruise missles work, so to make sure i get my point across, how do the 2 cruise missles work?
Myke

I wasen't joking about wanting one...name your price....50 ponies is amazing!

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Lance
Click Image to go to site.

I am far from an engineer but..........

would it be possible to have the dual TB's come in at a verticle position and possible use an Indy over the roof scoop for a ram air effect of the 2.8?

Hank is Here

1) I like the way it looks. Crude as yet, but has potential.

2) I really like the way it performs. And again, even more potential.

3) Cooter, you "da man!" You deserve all the accolades for the ingenuity.
The volumetric efficiency is definately a step forward.

4) You also have a very marketable item, once you get it "refined".
Don't give it away for nothing - you deserve the rewards.

And I'm now wondering what such a setup will do with other engines??? Like a 4.5 Cadero??

Hmmm. Too bad Michigan winter is coming and gotta put the Fiero away.

[This message has been edited by Tryxalon (edited 10-24-2001).]

How's about an H configuration to balance the pressure and if on throttle connection snaps, atleaset you have air coming in from the other one...?

i was thinking an electronic actuator... witht eh same balance tube that lou was thining of.. hehe great minds.. at part throttle only one works.. at WOT or anything past 51% throttle the other would open and LAY on the FOG!! YEAH!! get some!

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0-60 in 4.91

www.1fst2m6.com - underconstruction - but check it out anywho...

[This message has been edited by 1FST2M6 (edited 10-25-2001).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: How's about an H configuration to balance the pressure

I was going to mention a balance tube as well - but then I looked at the picture again. Look on the far right hand side, and you'll see a rubber balance tube hooking the one to the other.

i'm not sure that it's large enough to actually work like you thinking.. it's a tube tot eh MAP sensor (is what it looks lke to me...) Greg?

I dont think one throttle body opening would work out to well, even with a balance tube wouldnt the far cylinder bank run lean?

ALL I can say is... WOW...!! I have been watching this thread from the start... I think that my brain has been in limp mode.
This is one of the Smartest Mod's I have ever seen.. And IT ACTUALLY WORK'S!!

I think that a balance tube would almost be a must at some point..
I'M NO engineer or even a professional mechanic.. is usually how I start thing's. NO FLAMES TO ANYONE... Some of us Come Across as wanting people to believe they know what they are talking about... FEW here are pro's.. or we would not have sooo many member's

I am the type of person that I like to think 5 step's ahead.. And doing *The Smoooooth GT* I HAVE HAD to be this way... What did I Fiberglass over?? That's my worst nightmare..

Travis.... How much more time could you knock off your 0-60 time with a SECOND n2o kit to the other TB?? Possible??

OMG... What is that sound??? TWIN TURBO'S??? Maybe two smaller one's?? What do the Turbo *PRO'S* Think??

Congrat's again as I bow to you for doing this mod... Steve

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NOS Injected 2.8L V/6
UNDER CONSTRUCTION

I heard a guy here in ontario who was going to run 2 motorcycle turbos (they do like 4 pounds or something) one on each bank. 3 cyl exhuast boosting 3 cyl intake.

So far I am impressed.

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www.fieroworld.com The place to go for Fiero INFO!
Home of my 87 GT and 85 GT
Justin C.
Engineer, Designer and
Technical Trainer for Nortel Networks Business Products.

quote Originally posted by grinthock: I heard a guy here in ontario who was going to run 2 motorcycle turbos (they do like 4 pounds or something) one on each bank. 3 cyl exhuast boosting 3 cyl intake. So far I am impressed.

what do the turbo guy's think of this idea???

I like the idea of a top-discharge Eaton blower (like the T-bird Super Coupe's) sitting between the plenums.

And this guy's a school teacher... Can my kids go to your school?

I liked the idea of an Eaton sitting up there so much that I bought one. Well, I bought it for the intake I made before "The Patriot". The problem that I ran into is the blower will not sit far enough down on the intake because of the location of the fuel rail. The blower needs to be further down in the engine compartment because the drive "snout", hood and grill on the right side are in a bit of interference. If someone could overcome the fuel rail issue, getting an Eaton in there would not be a problem. I have thought about cutting the case ribs down on the bottom of the blower, but I still don't think it will be enough to clear the hood/grill and I would really hate to weaken the case and have durabiltiy problems.
Originally, I had planned to mount the blower on the opposite side of the engine from the A/C compressor, under the alternator but there is just not enough room there either. Maybe make a drive shaft and mount the blower over the transaxle like the pic of the supercharged Grand Am.
Edited to add the pic of old intake made for the Eaton:

[This message has been edited by Cooter (edited 10-27-2001).]