Change every OTHER time you do the clutch (think... you have the cradle out already...)
Best! Ben
quote
Originally posted by Formula88: Thanks for another great episode, Archie! I imagine with the engine being a bit narrower than the Fiero 2.8, it could actually be easier to service. What a concept! I guess the hard part would be anything on the front of the engine (alt, wp, etc.). Any special concerns for maintenance? I know on some swaps (3.4TDC for example) you have to drop the cradle just to change spark plugs. That's crazy. I'd want something that's as serviceable as the factory engine.
------------------ Ben Cannon 88 Formula, T-top Metalic Red 88 Formula, Silver 87 Coupe, Metalic Red "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives" -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"
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05:01 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Archie, not only are you a good engineer and mechanic, you're a pretty good salesman too. Everytime I see one of these posts, I keep asking myself why am I even considering another type of swap?
Still - I am interested in how the ZZ4 runs with TPI. That sounds like a great swap, and if I can get that Federal Emissions legal, that may be the way to go. I love the 3800SC and the Northstar, and they have their own advantages and disadvantages, but your swaps have the big plus of already having all the engineering problems located and taken care of. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of mileage a TPI ZZ4 will get? That could get expensive going to car shows!
Keep up the good work, Archie. Always a pleasure to see Fieros transformed.
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10:56 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Originally posted by Formula88: Archie, not only are you a good engineer and mechanic, you're a pretty good salesman too. Everytime I see one of these posts, I keep asking myself why am I even considering another type of swap?
Still - I am interested in how the ZZ4 runs with TPI. That sounds like a great swap, and if I can get that Federal Emissions legal, that may be the way to go. I love the 3800SC and the Northstar, and they have their own advantages and disadvantages, but your swaps have the big plus of already having all the engineering problems located and taken care of. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of mileage a TPI ZZ4 will get? That could get expensive going to car shows!
Keep up the good work, Archie. Always a pleasure to see Fieros transformed.
You know, I don't know why anyone would consider anything but a SBC either.
I had a TPI ZZ$ in my White Ghost IMSA car and got 15 to 17 around town (depending on wether I drove it hard or soft... for the 2mpg difference I drove it hard all the time) On the Highway that car got 26 as long as I kept it below 90 MPH.
I've had carburated cars that got this kind of mileage but you have to get the carb. properly adjusted.
Archie
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11:11 AM
beer_stud_21 Member
Posts: 371 From: Keaau, Hawaii, USA Registered: Jan 2001
I was told that here in Missouri("Misery",I call it)we can't do the SBC swap.I'm not sure whether it's the swap,or that it might not pass emissions.I'm sure the fuel injected motor would pass,no problem.Does anyone know? I'm clueless when it comes to the laws of the state.I'm thinking of moving to a different state,maybe more East
------------------ 85 GT Turbo intercooled
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02:12 PM
Monkeyman Member
Posts: 15824 From: N. Wilkesboro, NC, USA Registered: Nov 1999
Originally posted by Archie: You know, I don't know why anyone would consider anything but a SBC either.
Archie
Money. Or lack of it. That's the only thing keeping my car out of your shop, Archie. You should do a payment plan. Then you'd be taking pics of my car wrapped around that ZZ4.
Originally posted by Formula88: Archie, not only are you a good engineer and mechanic, you're a pretty good salesman too. Everytime I see one of these posts, I keep asking myself why am I even considering another type of swap?
Still - I am interested in how the ZZ4 runs with TPI. That sounds like a great swap, and if I can get that Federal Emissions legal, that may be the way to go. I love the 3800SC and the Northstar, and they have their own advantages and disadvantages, but your swaps have the big plus of already having all the engineering problems located and taken care of. Hmmm, I wonder what kind of mileage a TPI ZZ4 will get? That could get expensive going to car shows!
Keep up the good work, Archie. Always a pleasure to see Fieros transformed.
Just a note on mileage, When I left Chicago, on Friday morning after Archie finished the car you are seeing in this post, I arrived in California Saturday afternoon. After the customary 500 or so brake-in miles, I averaged 26 MPG for the trip. I am very happy with that.
You also ask how the ZZ4 ran with TIP, It's hard to describe, but the word fantastic comes to mind. And I would have to say that is an under description of the power and ability of this engine.
Originally posted by rgeeinc: Just a note on mileage, When I left Chicago, on Friday morning after Archie finished the car you are seeing in this post, I arrived in California Saturday afternoon. After the customary 500 or so brake-in miles, I averaged 26 MPG for the trip. I am very happy with that.
You also ask how the ZZ4 ran with TIP, It's hard to describe, but the word fantastic comes to mind. And I would have to say that is an under description of the power and ability of this engine.
The one thing that rgee forgot to mention is that he got that kind of gas mileage with a 6cyl. 4-SPEED transmission.
Archie
------------------ Just how fast do you want to go?
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10:50 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
I've had a little problem with the disc that had the stills from my digital camera, so these pics are captured from the Video tape we did of the swap.
We managed to get a lot done on this day, our goal to fire the unit up on the 5th day appears to be intact.
We continue with the assembly by installing the modified Fiero wire harness and integrating it with the aftermarket TPI wire harness.
We install the TPI ECM in the trunk area behind the carpet. Our Video instruction take takes the wiring for the Carbed engine or the Fuel injected engines in great detail. The pics are captured from the new video instruction tape that we recorded while doing this swap.
The Video tells you what to do with each and everyone of these wires and more. It's not as complicated as you might think.
Here we have installed the fuel rails, injectors & distributer. We've run the TPI wires under the fuel rails to the injectors and TPS, IAC & WT sensors.
Then we can install the TPI tubes and then the top part of the TPI air box
On day 5 we will complete this installation far enough that we can fire the unit up.
See you then
Archie
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10:55 PM
PFF
System Bot
Nov 2nd, 2001
SLYGUY Member
Posts: 581 From: San Bernardino, CA USA Registered: Sep 2001
Originally posted by Archie: Day #4… 9-14-01 continued
Here we have installed the fuel rails, injectors & distributer. We've run the TPI wires under the fuel rails to the injectors and TPS, IAC & WT sensors....
Archie
Hey Archie,
Is there any way to get a better shot of the "under the plenum" wiring route that you use? I'm installing a TPI into my 68 Camaro and would love to hide the wiring a little better.
Archie: I would love to see some video of it myself as well, if I can get a copy of it I could digitize it, make it available for download or stream from your website.
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11:53 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Sorry, I had a very busy weekend and didn't get a chance to post up.
Day #5… 9-18-01
Day #5 now we are heading quickly towards starting this unit up for the 1st time.
Install the Throttle Body, tighten the bolts on the TPI tubes, install dist Cap, route the plug wires etc.
At this point we are also installing the W/P drive for the last time and making all the connections for the cooling system. We also get underneath the car and build up the exhaust system
Well, finally…. It's time….. I know you can't hear it but we've finished the connection of everything and this view is just a few seconds after the engine was fired up for the 1st time. This is the last view of the engine in the car before we reinstall the rear clip.
Now we can install the rear clip and take her for the maiden voyage. I've been doing this full time for more than 15 years and have installed around 170 V-8 engines in Fieros and this is the most exciting time on each and every car. I never get over the thrill of the first test drive, and this one will be no different.
Tomorrow is the last day of this swap and we button things up a bit, do a bunch of test driving and send Mr. Rutz out for the ultimate test drive from Chicago to Napa, CA.
Tomorrow we also get back to using the good quality digital pics.
Archie
------------------ Just how fast do you want to go?
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 11-05-2001).]
Very cool Archie. You make it look so easy. Makes one think you could do this over a weekend! Thanks again for making this series available. Will be looking forward to next project.
Yup you definitely make it look easy Archie, but that is really inspiring as well. I'm reading up on a lot of auto mechanics stuff now. And then when I get my Fiero I'll be able to do some stuff myself *dream*
Are you going into detail about the big brake install? do you supply most of your customers with the TPI or do you require them to find one? If you supply them and charge them, where do you find them all. GRRRR....im just venting because i cant find one yet. are you installing any engines this week. I'm going to be in Waucanda, IL thurs. and want to stop by if your doing a swap. LMK
The big brake install is not designed for an 88 (just an FYI)
It's fairly easy to do. I didn't use archies kit (should have) But the conversion can be done in around 3-4 hours I would say with all the right parts on hand.
Uses Camaro and Cadillac calipers , has a working E brake. The rotors are 11.25" Chrysler units. The rears have the bore enlarged slightly , and the fronts have an insert (depending on the setup)
The setup uses the common front hub most brake swaps do.
All the brackets are flame cut mild plate steel. replacement pads are cheap , all the parts are over the counter unlike some more exotic brake setups.
I put around 1500 miles on my car with the big brakes this summer and can't see not having them. The difference is amazing. Even with stock pads you can pull brake numbers the same as any new vette. (A little fine tuning and you can really stop time!)
It adds a bit of unsprung weight to the car , but I found this to make the car feel better at speed. More stable.
Definetley in the top 5 on the to do list. The hardest part of the swap was taking off the old calipers.
Hope this helps.
------------------ Jonathan McCreery 86 GT 4spd Koni's , Coilovers, Big Bars , 17" Trmotorsports Typhoons , 11.25" vented discs, Wilwood 4 Piston Calipers , Pirelli P Zero's, Short Shift, No cat , Cold air induction , Geni Stainless tips, White face gauges , Momo shift , momo pedals, Big Bore TB, 70Hp Shot of NOS Autocrossed , Tracked , Dragged? (soon) abused.
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06:13 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Wrap up a few things, connect the cruse control…. Drive it around a little while. Inspect for any leaks etc. Drive it some more etc.
One nice thing on this swap is that the customer was there for all the important parts of the swap and he was also there to assist in the Test Driving. You will recall that he has owned this car for more than 10 years, so we had to teach him how to drive the car again, hehe.
As you can see the engine and the car both look pretty good.
Let me see if I can answer a few of the outstanding questions.
On the New Video Instruction Tape.... Sometime in about 2 weeks I should have it edited into something that I can send out to V-8 kits customers. We do sell the instruction video to people interested in seeing it. The Video costs $50 which is credited towards your future purchase of the kit. When I have the vidoe edited, I will be sending a copy of it to all of my V-8 customers who have bought a kit in the last 6 months at no charge.
Sage:, yeah I make it look easy because it actually is easy...... a LOT EASIER than most people think.
Roy, let me see if I can help you a litle with TPI wire routing. I don't really have any good digital pics. of the wires on the intake before the air box is installed I have a bunch of video tape of that but pulling pics off of video doesn't produce a very detailed picture. So, I went out and took some pics for you today.
You can see the wire harness (just to the right of the Dist.) as it goes past the dist. and under the fuel rail. You can also see a couple of the injector wires as they come over the fuel rails on the right side and attach to the injectors. the wires that run under the air box are as follows.... 8 sets of injector wires (4 of them stay to the right and the other 4 go to the left) also the TPS, IAC, ATS (Air Temp. Sensor), and the Water Temp Sensor wires go thru here too and on out under the Throttle Body to attach to the proper sensors on the front of the base lower intake manifold as you can see a few of them in this pic.
I hope this helps
KissMySSFiero.... Yes we also did the Big Brake swap to this Fiero. I recorded all of that conversion on video as a Video instruction tape, and didn't take very many digital pics of it. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I was going to cover it in this thread, but I decided that a new thread on that topic would be better. I expect to do a thread on that brake swap in about 2 weeks when I get caught up on a few other things.
On the TPI system thing, I do collect TPI systems and rebuild them everyone needs a hobby and I guess TPI is my second hobby. When a customer, like the one in this thread, wants TPI I can supply the parts for him or he can furnish his own. You can't buy TPI systems new anymore so I buy used TPI systems at swap meets etc. and re-build them. We are not doing any V-8 installs this week because we are working on my next Chop Top car. When we get done on the chassis work on that car we will be installing a new LT1 crate engine into it. Besides Waucanda is quite a ways from here.
Any more questions?
Archie
------------------ Just how fast do you want to go?
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12:09 PM
Msaby Member
Posts: 292 From: Allentown, PA 18104 Registered: Sep 2001
Hey Archie, I have your kit and video. can i trade my video in for your new one. i am installing a TPI in my fiero and i am very confused on tpi wiring. i am the guy you exchanged my flywheel for me. thanks mike
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01:39 PM
Nov 9th, 2001
RiceCooker Member
Posts: 1178 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Registered: May 2000
Originally posted by RedOktober: Archie.. What headers are you using, I would like to get the PN if you have it. Looks much better than the Ram Horns. TIA
Everytime I see one of these posts, I keep asking myself why am I even considering another type of swap? 
J/K!
