Does anyone have any information about the V8 kit from Hi-tech development in canada? I'm going to call them tomorrow to see if I can get more info about their kit. Its at http://www.hi-techdev.com/htdv8.htm
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03:41 PM
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ig88vsbobafett Member
Posts: 3446 From: Cheyenne Wyoming Registered: Oct 2001
www.V8archie.com also has V8 fiero kits I will be back in Contoocook NH in a Few months Mb we can have a Fiero get togeter with all the NH fiero owners
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03:52 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Yes I know about Archie's kit. I just don't like it. The kit from canada repositions the v8 2 inches to the drivers side. This way the waterpump fits in the engine compartment and centers the weight better. But that's pretty much all I know about the kit right now. Hopefully I'll know more tomorrow!
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03:58 PM
jelly2m8 Member
Posts: 6232 From: Nova Scotia, Canada Registered: Jul 2001
In terms of the relability of the company, I spoke to them at the Speedorama Auto Show here.
I spoke for 30 minutes with a guy who said he was the owner. I asked for a price on s.s. brake lines, he said $230. I said O.K., continued to walk around the show, came back a half hour later, to buy the lines.
The person I was speaking to before was busy, so I tell the person whose sitting down at their table I want to buy the stainless lines. He says, Ok, $280. I tell him that the owner just told me a half hour before they were $230. He says he's the owner and the other guy dosen't know what he's talking about, he's just a worker.
That's my story, I've heard others that are similar. I don't trust them because of this.
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04:13 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Ok, I understand there may be some issues with "new" companies. I've worked at startup computer companies. But I really I'm interested in the KIT design. If they won't send the installation instructions and such. Then I'll be suspect of the kit. But I was hoping someone on this forum has direct involvement in the installation of their kit. But again I'm just starting to look at my options. I already have looked at Archies kit and am really not interested.
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04:20 PM
hugh Member
Posts: 5563 From: Clementon,NJ,USA Registered: Jun 2000
If I was going to install a V8 in my car,the only way I would go is with one of the Archie kits.The w/p drive can now be electric,eliminating the belt in the wheel well(even though there have been no problems with that settup)His is a tried and proven kit and one of the most important things is he is available if you have any problems(he answers the phone).There are no special axles to buy.All you need is in his kits.
------------------ #1112
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04:35 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
I will be using it for my LT1 and it requires moving the mounts over towards the drivers side 2", only because the water pump is driven off of the cam. But why would you want to move a normal SBC over 2"? It's more extra work than it's worth. PLUS he's been doing it since 87!!! So I trust the fact that he has had THAT much time to work out all of the kinks.
Bottom line is, that hi-tech kit is a brutal knock off for the same price. If you want to buy it, go for it, we'll be here to help you out with all of your problems with it after you use it.
------------------ Dan 1985 Silver GT
400HP LT1 Conversion has begun......
[This message has been edited by sloth85GT (edited 03-03-2002).]
I'm not positive but I think for the same reasons you have to cut a little sheet metal on Archie's kit you need to NOTCH/MODIFY the FRAME on the HTD(Zumalt?) kit.
I would be more concerned with REALLY unequal legnth axles then a motor thats a couple inches off center.
Besides, was it not the HTD show car that had ALL of the sheet metal in the engine bay removed? This is the some of the same small bit of area that you need to remove on Archie's kit, go figure.
Jim 87 GT T-TOP V8(8,500 hard driven miles, Archie's kit) 87 GT
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04:49 PM
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Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
To sloth85GT Your taking archies kit and modifying it to move over 2 inches? Why would you do that. Why not just buy a kit that already does that for you ?
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04:56 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
All fieros already have "un-equal" drive shafts!!!!
quote
Originally posted by Jimmy: I'm not positive but I think for the same reasons you have to cut a little sheet metal on Archie's kit you need to NOTCH/MODIFY the FRAME on the HTD(Zumalt?) kit.
I would be more concerned with REALLY unequal legnth axles then a motor thats a couple inches off center.
Besides, was it not the HTD show car that had ALL of the sheet metal in the engine bay removed? This is the some of the same small bit of area that you need to remove on Archie's kit, go figure. Im not worried about what I have to remove. Jim 87 GT T-TOP V8(8,500 hard driven miles, Archie's kit) 87 GT
Originally posted by sloth85GT: Why aren't you interested in Archies kit?
I will be using it for my LT1 and it requires moving the mounts over towards the drivers side 2", only because the water pump is driven off of the cam. But why would you want to move a normal SBC over 2"? It's more extra work than it's worth. PLUS he's been doing it since 84!!! So I trust the fact that he has had THAT much time to work out all of the kinks.
Bottom line is, that hi-tech kit is a brutal knock off for the same price. If you want to buy it, go for it, we'll be here to help you out with all of your problems with it after you use it.
Archies first car was built in 87. I don't know the HTD guys personally but I have heard mixed reviews (my dad used to autocross with the owner. Good or bad ,I would just go with a more proven kit , archie puts his home phone # down on his site , and it's not like he's going to decide to do Cobra kits tomorrow and abandon the Fiero venture.
Just my 2 cents ,I heard the craftsmanship of the HTD kit is less than desirable.
Also to the person $230 for SS brake , are you nuts!!!!
JM
------------------ Jonathan McCreery 86 GT 4spd Koni's , Coilovers, Big Bars , 17" Trmotorsports Typhoons , 11.25" vented discs, Wilwood 4 Piston Calipers , Pirelli P Zero's, Short Shift, No cat , Cold air induction , Geni Stainless tips, White face gauges , Momo shift , momo pedals, Big Bore TB, 70Hp Shot of NOS Autocrossed , Tracked , Dragged? (soon) abused.
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05:00 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Look I'm really not interested in debating archies kit. I don't want this to go the wrong way. I'm sure it works fine. I just was looking for some advice on the hi-tech kit.I'm interested in someone who has "hands on" experience with the Hi-tech kit. Not hear say, not archies kit works.....Ect,Ect
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05:02 PM
Adrift Member
Posts: 1796 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2001
Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: But again I'm just starting to look at my options. I already have looked at Archies kit and am really not interested.
Thats fine, We are trying to help you. Take a poll, which is the favorable V8 swap kit, you will get the same answer.
Get Hi-techs kit, but when you come here and ask about the problems with it, I don't think you will find any answers, except ya shoulda bought Archies!
O.K, heres what I personally have heard about the Hi-tech developement kit. In no particular order (1) Poor installation instructions, (2) lack of technical support. (3) theres the guy that had to have his axles replaced, becasue they were splined wrong, that was a 3 month wait. (4) the guy that can't keep a crankshaft in his SBC, last he figured it was the flywheel.
Thats just the ones I have personally spoken too. I have also heard bad stuff from 2 others.
Looking at the HTD kit, there looks to be like alot of odds and ends missing from it.
I get a kick out of whats included in the kit, axles which are good for 500 hp, but the clutch is only good for 300.... You need to buy an optional clutch for more hp, but that clutch looks simply like a centerforce dual friction, your not going to put 500 hp through that.
Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: All fieros already have "un-equal" drive shafts!!!!
Yes but the HTD/Zumwalt drive-shafts are MORE unequal on the order of 4"! Thats a pretty drastic change to the drivetrain. Now you have a really short driver side axle(~2" shorter) and a really long passenger side axle (~2" longer).
Posts like this always make me laugh. A guy asks about a certain kit and all he gets is basically people trying to tell him to buy Archies. HE'S NOT ASKING ABOUT ARCHIES!! I am sure the odd post saying you haven't heard as many good things about HTD'S kit as Archies is fine but give the guy a break and talk about specific technical issues with the kit already! I am sure he can decide on his own. I often wonder if any of you guys bashing the HTD kit have even SEEN one cause if you're saying its of poor quality then I question what you have seen. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the HTD from a neutral standpoint but I'm doing it in PM's cause this always happens when someone asks about something-they get 10 guys telling him about something totally different. (i.e Ford v8 thread, homebuilt v8 thread etc etc) I work 5 mins from HTD and I've been there and seen what they have to offer. PM if you care to hear my take on things. BTW I'm making my own kit so its safe to say I'm not particularly partial to any one design.
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05:22 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Originally posted by 85GToronto: Posts like this always make me laugh. A guy asks about a certain kit and all he gets is basically people trying to tell him to buy Archies. HE'S NOT ASKING ABOUT ARCHIES!! I am sure the odd post saying you haven't heard as many good things about HTD'S kit as Archies is fine but give the guy a break and talk about specific technical issues with the kit already! I am sure he can decide on his own. I often wonder if any of you guys bashing the HTD kit have even SEEN one cause if you're saying its of poor quality then I question what you have seen. I'd be happy to answer any questions about the HTD from a neutral standpoint but I'm doing it in PM's cause this always happens when someone asks about something-they get 10 guys telling him about something totally different. (i.e Ford v8 thread, homebuilt v8 thread etc etc) I work 5 mins from HTD and I've been there and seen what they have to offer. PM if you care to hear my take on things. BTW I'm making my own kit so its safe to say I'm not particularly partial to any one design.
Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: Look I'm really not interested in debating archies kit. I don't want this to go the wrong way. I'm sure it works fine. I just was looking for some advice on the hi-tech kit.I'm interested in someone who has "hands on" experience with the Hi-tech kit. Not hear say, not archies kit works.....Ect,Ect
I know, the Archie kit isn't being modified, just the mounts, most likely the EXACT same thing will be done with the hi-tech kit, but it's not necessary with a normal SBC, just with an LT1.
I know you asked about the hi-tech kit, but I guess what we're trying to do is tell you that you'll be sorry if you go that route, and it's pretty much the same price.
We won't flame you if you buy that kit, we WILL be here to help you when you have problems, and you WILL have problems because you won't get the tech support you'll need from them. If you want, go for it, try it out, but that's a lot of money to throw away. Hell, who knows, I may be wrong, it may all work out good for you and we'll all be wrong. But I am getting my kit from Archie, why? Because I haven't heard ONE complaint about him, his service, OR his product. Would you buy a rolex from a guy on the street or one from the jewellers? Same deal.
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06:24 PM
Bob_in_NH Member
Posts: 132 From: Manchester,NH,USA Registered: Mar 2002
Well if Archie is going to move the engine over 2 inches for your lt1 install , why is it bad for the Hi-tech kit to do this??? Seems kinda hypocritical? People are using that as one of the reasons why I shouldn't buy the hi-tech kit!
But I will keep you guys posted on my progress no matter which kit I choose. I may find that Archie has the best solution for me . Who knows. I just want to look at all my options.
I'm going to start a web page once I get going.
I just finished helping a friend install a turbo "kit" in his camry. This "kit" wasn't quite truthful about how complete it was or how easy it was . We/I had to fabricate parts and move some others that weren't addressed in they're instructions. You can see our progress here >> http://www.meisners.net/camry/CamryTurbo/
quote
Originally posted by sloth85GT: I know, the Archie kit isn't being modified, just the mounts, most likely the EXACT same thing will be done with the hi-tech kit, but it's not necessary with a normal SBC, just with an LT1.
I know you asked about the hi-tech kit, but I guess what we're trying to do is tell you that you'll be sorry if you go that route, and it's pretty much the same price.
We won't flame you if you buy that kit, we WILL be here to help you when you have problems, and you WILL have problems because you won't get the tech support you'll need from them. If you want, go for it, try it out, but that's a lot of money to throw away. Hell, who knows, I may be wrong, it may all work out good for you and we'll all be wrong. But I am getting my kit from Archie, why? Because I haven't heard ONE complaint about him, his service, OR his product. Would you buy a rolex from a guy on the street or one from the jewellers? Same deal.
Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: Well if Archie is going to move the engine over 2 inches for your lt1 install , why is it bad for the Hi-tech kit to do this??? Seems kinda hypocritical? People are using that as one of the reasons why I shouldn't buy the hi-tech kit!
You're misunderstanding me, what I mean is, for a normal Small Block Chevy, you don't have to move it over 2" with Archies kit as you do with the Hi-Tech kit. So I was just saying that they are making you do more work than it's worth for a normal SBC. ONLY the LT1 has to be moved over 2". Hope that clears some stuff up.
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12:45 AM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
Seems to me if moving the motor over 2" suddenly is ok for an LT1 it should be ok for a SBC? I mean is there a valid arguement to deny that? True you don't HAVE to do it for the SBC but personally I'd much rather use a stock SBC waterpump, which might have to be changed several times over the life of the car, for a whopping ~$30 cnd. I mean what does the other option here cost??? From what I have seen the HTD kit involves almost NO cutting if you are using the 4 speed. And the cutting involved for any other trans is no more serious than what hotrodders have been doing for years. I don't hear anyone crying when a 40's rod has a frame "c" section done on it to lower the car, why is this suddenly different??? Done right there would be ZERO affect on the strength of the car. Not to mention probably half the Fiero's in this Forum probably have rusted out rails/cradles creating more serious issues than this ever would.
Well as I said earlier, who knows, the kit might be good. Only way to find out is try it, I just don't want to take that risk in the quality of the parts.
------------------ Dan 1985 Silver GT
400HP LT1 Conversion has begun......
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08:54 AM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "quality" of parts. I've seen the kit, several times in fact. Its a machined and polished 1/2" adapter plate and steel brackets, new drive axles, etc that all look quite good in fact. What's not of good quality??? You've totally lost me here. Not to mention you're giving out info about something and people read it thinking you have some amount of experince with it, and to be honest if all you can say about it is its not "good quality" I don't think you do. I'm not trying to start a flame or anything but I've been pming with Bob now and we've had purely technical and unbiased discussions on both kits. Its just sad we have to do that in a PM because no one else can benefit from the debate. If you've got a SPECIFIC issue with the HTD kit lets hear it! About the only major thing about the kit is the old clutch issue and that seems to be an issue no matter what kit you use. Personally I think I'll use Archies as I seem to have heard the most/positive things about it. But I don't think in either basic kits thats included anyway.
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09:35 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Originally posted by 85GToronto: Posts like this always make me laugh. A guy asks about a certain kit and all he gets is basically people trying to tell him to buy Archies. HE'S NOT ASKING ABOUT ARCHIES!!
You are absolutely right. I have no info on the kit he's asking about, but have had friends who've done business with Archie and feel comfortable recommending his work. That's about all I can offer.
But, as it's been mentioned, if you're shying away from an Archie kit because of the water pump in the wheelwell, there are ways around that. I'd suggest an electric pump, so you don't have to move the engine. But, if you want a stock pump inside the wheelwell, ask Archie about shifting the engine 2" like he does on his LT1 swaps. He's already done the development on these swaps too, so I'm sure he can provide you with any pro/con answers to doing it either way. It's about $700 more to shift the engine, so that's why he doesn't do it unless it's necessary.
My opinion: If I were to do a SBC conversion, it would be an Archie conversion. No hesitation. No doubt. How many completed SBC Fieros have you seen that WEREN'T an Archie swap? Not many, I'd wager. Check out the shows this season and see the various types of swaps first hand if you want to do some research.
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09:45 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
This page just made up my mind against this company. Maybe it's just a typo, but...
I don't want to do business with a company that sells Front Control Arm Bushings for 81 Fieros, or Rear Control Arm Busings for 88 Fieros. Am I nitpicking? Maybe. But that type of incorrect data doesn't instill confidence in me.
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09:47 AM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
Well I am afraid I can't put much value on your thread either then....
"...Rear Control Arm Busings for 88 Fieros..."
LOL (damn I'm paranoid about spelling now)
I'm kidding of course but as unprofessional as it is on a web site I don't think thats a very good reason to write off a company, simply because they typed a 1 in place of a 4.
Again lets try sticking to the TECHnical issues between the kits.
I mean we aren't talking about the space shuttle here, these kits do fairly simple things, just in different ways. So lets hear about why one is better than the other based on this. I won't even begin to argue about customer service because I do also belive that is Archies, hands down. But Bob is clearly not asking about that.
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10:06 AM
LS1swap Member
Posts: 1181 From: McHenry,IL.USA Registered: Jan 2001
$700 for splining the shafts? When I was looking into it the machine shop down the street from me told me $100 for both that included cutting two shafts to what ever length I wanted. I would of had to go to a bone yard a get a second shaft long enough to be modified. I do also have to admit this machine shop has been very good to me they made the doughnut for my flywheel for $80 bucks including material. They also put a key way in a shaft for my snow blower once for $10 bucks. Now we are talking cash (wallet size presidential portraits) but still I think it could be done for less than seven hundred. Any drive shaft place could also do it, and that would probably be the place to go for most. I don't know about the company but my fat fingers miss type all the time LOL
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10:15 AM
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Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Originally posted by 85GToronto: Not to mention you're giving out info about something and people read it thinking you have some amount of experince with it, and to be honest if all you can say about it is its not "good quality" I don't think you do. I'm not trying to start a flame or anything but I've been pming with Bob now and we've had purely technical and unbiased discussions on both kits. Its just sad we have to do that in a PM because no one else can benefit from the debate. If you've got a SPECIFIC issue with the HTD kit lets hear it! About the only major thing about the kit is the old clutch issue and that seems to be an issue no matter what kit you use.
Well, by all means, please enlighten us. I will be the last to decry an honest objective technical discussion. Tell us what you want to say and just ignore those who don't want to talk about technical issues.
I also am irked when people shoot off a load of hearsay as reliable information without adding the requisite qualification as such.
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10:42 AM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
EXACTLY LS1! This is why I'm leaning toward shifting my swap as well. I figure I'll only have to do that once and I get nice clean stock waterpump and pulleys. I won't be any more annoyed at breaking axles than someone with an LS1 if thats the case. I'm going to run the Muncie 4, at first anyway, and I believe this is the easiest of trans to run with minimal, if any, cutting req'd. A local member of our club had both axles made, end to end, all brand new CV's etc for $350 cnd ($218 us) and thats still way cheaper than an electric waterpump or drive system.
Well Will what are your thoughts on the kits then? I mean there are aspects of both that are good, and aspects of both that are bad. As I've said I'm not against shifting the motor as this can obviously be done right. I think the benefits of doing this outweigh the other alternative. This isn't to say I think HTD's whole kit is better but in this particular aspect I do. I think the rear of the crank on a pre '86 SBC makes the swap more difficult than it needs to be (see the Ford V8 thread for more on that one) and this affects the way both kits address adapter plate thickness. I honestly don't think there is much difference in installation difficulty. If you can't figure either kit out you might not be a good candidate to be doing a v8 swap period.
[This message has been edited by 85GToronto (edited 03-04-2002).]
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10:43 AM
1FST2M6 Member
Posts: 3905 From: Dallas, GA. Registered: Jan 2000
1fst2m6, It's dumba$$ comments like that that cause intelligent people to avoid posting USEFULL technical information in posts like this cause they(I) can't stand putting up with USELESS posts like yours.
DID IT HELP BOB IN ANY WAY WHAT YOU SAID???!!
No it didn't so WHY BOTHER SAYING SOMETHING SO STUPID!?
Try reading the title and questions asked by the topic poster and asking yourself if your 2 cents are helping answer the guys question. If not DON'T POST!
I am sure if you HAD actually READ this thread you'd see that Bob has already looked into the Archie kit and for whatever reason he is now curious about the HTD kit. Give us all a break and lets try to get the tech section of Pennocks back to technical issues........
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01:15 PM
LS1swap Member
Posts: 1181 From: McHenry,IL.USA Registered: Jan 2001
Actually I will be using an electric water pump and stock axle lengths. An LS1 water pump is huge it sticks out about seven inches from the block and the thermostat housing even makes it worse because it protrudes to the back and will interfere with the strut tower. It is also non symmetrical in the way it connects to the engine so I can not flip it. I was just saying I did look into custom axles and that is what I found.
My thoughts... Archie makes a very good kit and is time tested. I would probably go with him but that is just me. He is also located very close to me. You being in Canada that might be different. But that is what this forum is all about free trade of info good luck what ever you decide. If you do decide on the other than let us know how it turns out.
the pic is upside down LOL but you should be able to get the idea
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01:36 PM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
Cool pic LS1 , thanks! I've never seen a detailed stand alone pic of the waterpump like that. I can see how that would be a %$#%@ to fit in there. So I assume you're just placing blockoff plates on the block and remote mounting the electric pump then?
Originally posted by 85GToronto: I have no clue what you are talking about when you say "quality" of parts.
If you read it again, I said the "RISK" involved with the quality of the parts, who knows if they're good or not, they haven't been used as much as Archies. I never said that they are poor quality because I myself have never tried them.
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01:47 PM
fastback87 Member
Posts: 300 From: Indianapolis, IN, USA Registered: Oct 2001
I sure would have liked to have heard about the other kit. I have heard so much about Archies, it all sounds good. I have no personal experience with either one. I just like to hear the facts about stuff. It does seem funny that no one has this kit?? Or for some reason no one on this forum has it? How hard can it be to make a kit? Don't get me wrong it does take time but I also know if you work on a problem you can figure it out(I am a mechanical engineer myself). If you had all the time for R&D and trial and error you could figure out how to rig a 350 into your fiero. So these two companies "V8-ARCHIE" and "HITECH" have worked all this out "somehow"
Now what is the pros and cons of two kits? I have heard that the basic Archie Kit doesn't come with a lot of the little fasteners and hoses and little hard to find stuff. Am I wrong? I personally, if I ever bite the bullet and decide to put a 350 in one of my cars, will go with archie. Unless I can get the Hitech for a lot less due to exchange rates...
So come on guys we can do better than this, it is a technical discussion not a hearsay debate. Later.
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02:26 PM
85GToronto Member
Posts: 927 From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2001
I am not under the impression that HTD has sold many kits no, but this doesn't mean the kit itself is no good or of poor quality.
As a matter of fact I haven't really heard anyone give a single specific reason as to why technically this kit ISN'T any good.It is based on a different theory thats all. Untill someone comes up with an explaination for the shifting logic between the SBC and the LS1 then I cannot see how one can argue this kit is no good for that reason. I CAN see some people not wanting to modify the frame rail( even though I am 110% sure this can be done with NO affect on the strength of the car) but I can just as easily see people prefering to swap axles than use a modified or expensive electric waterpump. Does anyone know of someone with a running car with an HTD kit in it right now? or someone who's tried to get one running and has had problems??? If so what problems???
