Not block off plates per say but rather adapter plates. Don meziere was nice enough to explain to me how to plumb a remote pump for the ls1. Not all that hard once you understand the routing. you think it looks funny from that angle check out this one. I agree it would be nice to hear first hand from someone who has tried this kit.

Hehe!!! I gotta see that sucker "alternatly" mounted! Definatly one of the stranger pumps I've seen. It doesn't look like they could have made that thing and LESS suitable for putting it in a Fiero! Perhaps you could keep us posted with more pics/progress in the "home built V8" thread we have going. It would likely be easier for people to find the info when searching thru the archives in x number of months. Can't wait to see it in the car.

quote Originally posted by Adrift: Braided Stainless Steel Brake lines from the Fiero Store cost $99 USD + shipping + Duties (For A Canadian like me). $99 USD = 157.673 CAD. Add on $10 for shipping (Canadian), you get $167. Add on $40 for shipping and duty fees and you have $217. $230 isn't that crazy anymore, eh? Your paying for convience.

I'm from Kingston Ontario...I paid $123 Tax included for a set of braided SS lines that are infact longer than stock by a bit for my brake conversion. If you want I can give you the name of the shop. I find that quite a few fiero shops / stores whatever charge a mint for parts that are quite common. Like $200 for a mustang scoop , I bought 3 from the wrecker for $20 each.

JM

I submit the following link. Scroll down half way and read Archie's post.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-011832.html

Cheers,
Andrew
(Not getting involved otherwise, and yes, Archie has a vested interest. But what he has to say is interesting.)

------------------
Andrew - 85SE - AKA Fieroless in Newfoundland :(

Ok well as far as that post goes I can say it's misleading to say the least. Again lets not go on hearsay here. I've been to the shop, seen the car, there is NO need, NONE whatsoever to remove the inner fenderwell's. That was done for looks and extra cooling on basically a car thats intended for racing, at least so they say. It's very obvious that NO part of the kit hits ANY of that sheetmetal in question. The ONLY mods that are necessary are to the left framerail and that is all dependant on which transaxle you use. A VERY small snip has to be made on the top of the right framerail near the battery. Again this is dependant on what pulleys you use. It is merely relieving the small flange that sticks up verticlally off the top of that rail, I suspect this could even be bent donw horizontally instead.
As I've said before this isn't really a big deal at all. Back yard hot rodders have been safely modifying and sectioning frames to a FAR greater extent than this for years. I can accept that one without the welding or fabrication skills would not want to undertake this but I can't see this arguement working based on this modification being "unsafe".
As for Archie I have the utmost respect for the way he runs his business and the way he backs his product. I've said it before his clutch is still on top of my list when I get to that stage but I'm not about to get in the middle of a pissing contest between him and another manufacturer. I think he has HTD beat hands down in the service area BUT if a guy is mechanically inclined and he likely won't need that customer service once he buys his kit then is it really of that much value to the customer????

Hi there fellow NH Fiero owner

My family and I are in Plainfield NH near Hanover and Dartmouth College.

Hope to see you at a few shows/events this year.

Steve Kelley

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http://kelleyfamilyfieros.50megs.com

archie is the man sorry, have to add my $.02 in every v8 engine swap post

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87 Fiero GT
1991 Jeep Cherokee

AIM:Spektrum117
And no! i'm not gay dangit!

For what it's worth, they are send the installation info I requested. I'm still not sure whether or not I want to install a v8. I may just rebuild the v6 and re-install.

Is this kind of thread common on this forum when a question is asked? I really didn't want to start a pissing contest about who's kit is better! I really was just curious about any info about the HTD kit.

There are a couple of subjects that will get this type of response. Some people feel very strong about thier particular opinions.
Many have had hands on experience many have not. Really and truly the choices are only yours, and it really won't make a lot of difference. If your money is hard to come by, most of the time it's best to go with depth of company. Archie.
Dave.

quote Originally posted by 85SE: I submit the following link. Scroll down half way and read Archie's post. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20020208-2-011832.html Cheers, Andrew (Not getting involved otherwise, and yes, Archie has a vested interest. But what he has to say is interesting.)

WOW, see, just that post alone will answer all questions, if you haven't read it, I suggest you do. And I also forgot about the notching of the frame rail. Woops, slipped my mind.

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: Is this kind of thread common on this forum when a question is asked? I really didn't want to start a pissing contest about who's kit is better! I really was just curious about any info about the HTD kit.

Actually No, we recommended Archie's kit,I told you what people who have the HTD kit told me, but that wasn't good enough.

Sorry I don't have a HTD kit, and the people who do and are having troubles with it are probably not going to change their mind on it.

Personally I would like to see someone say that the HTD kit has worked good for them first try around.

I do have a friend that does have a Zumalt kit ( which HTD is a rip-off copy of). He too had axles troubles, and starter troubles. The clutch didn't last 500 kilometers, and that was behind a stock Tuned port 305 ( all of 180-190 hp).

After converting the Zumalt kit to accept a Tilliton starter, replacing the clutch with a different brand and a several month wait for Zumalt to finally replace the faulty axle, he did get the kit to work.

I wonder if the guy at HTD isn't Zumalt, seems the copy of his kit has the same problems ( for some people).

My V8 which I just sold was an Archie kit, and my next V8 will use an Archie kit. Why?, because of the simplicity, reliability, and the fact that it worked right out of the box is enough to justify not trying a questionable kit.

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White V8 SOLD https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/006973.html

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 03-05-2002).]

Hey, here's an idea...lets hear about the conversion kit from someone whos actually PUT IT IN THEIR OWN CAR. If there's one thing that P*sses me off about this forum, its that there are alot of people who shoot off at the mouth like experts just cause they've "heard a story from a friend of a friend...blah blah blah". Hell, Imwilling to bet theres at least one or two people praising Archies kit who dont even have one in thier car!

sigh...sorry, us NH people gotta stick together

Two documented examples:

-Northstar Zumalt installation:
http://www.lambobuilder.com

-remoted water pump:
http://www.rickslambo.com

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quote Originally posted by Avery Montembeault: .lets hear about the conversion kit from someone whos actually PUT IT IN THEIR OWN CAR. If there's one thing that P*sses me off about this forum, its that there are alot of people who shoot off at the mouth like experts

I'll tell you what, I've built about 200 V-8 Fieros in the last 16 years. During that time I've also fixed/reworked/replaced 8 Zumwalt type V-8 kits. And I have pictures or Video tape of virtually every one of them.

I'm sure that I've worked on more Zumwalt kits than all of you guys put together have seen.

I've replaced clutches damaged by piss poor engineering.

I've had to weld nuts onto the flat head allen screws to be able to remove them to get the flywheel off.

Now, is there anything specific, you'd like to know?

Archie

First off, I have not installed either kit. If you explicitly want first hand experience, please, no flames, just skip my post.

Regarding the Zumalt (HTD) kit. A friend and fellow Suncoast Fiero Club member has been driving a Zumalt V8 86 GT for nine years. The only problems he's mentioned to me is one broken axle, clutch slippage, and overheating. He replaced the axle, upgraded the clutch (which still slips at high RPMs) and added an oil cooler (which took care of the overheating problems). He built his car himself while in school for his electrical engineer degree. He developed and manufactures the electronic digital dashes that PISA sells.

He has over 60,000 miles on a 330 HP motor and 5-speed. He did not buy the radiator from Zumalt but rather had it custom made. I'm sure Archie can also give many examples of successful high mileage installs.

In both cases basic kits require you to shop around for various products and parts to finish the project. If you're mechanically inclined and short tempered, I'm sure both will give you an end product that will give you many years of trouble free service.

The benefit of Archie's experience shows in his deluxe kit. It includes pretty much everything except your fluids. He has been building kits consistently and perfecting them for many years and has a proven track record. He's has also taken the time to develop a good relationship with the Fiero community (as evident in all the above positive comments). If you don't need these to build your car then, by all means, have at it with HTD or anyone else. I'll support you anyway.

The only thing in question is fitment. We know that in Archie's kit the brackets and engine/tranny adapter all line up and will fit. Period. If the HTD kit can say the same. GREAT. Buy it and install it and keep the stock water pump and sheet metal.

So... to summerize... If expert help, customer service and years of research and refinements aren't important to you. And you have an aversion to electric water pumps or holes in your wheel well. And the HTD kit fits the way it supposed to, BUY IT. Otherwise, you may want to give Archie's kit a second look.

Peace,

------------------
Roy :D
Just another stock Blue 87 GT
Suncoast Fieros

JUST ADDED: YELLOW 1988 GT w/ T-Tops, 5-Speed, and Performance Sound.

My thoughts exactly Avery! I still have yet to hear a real specific example of a technical issue here and I don't count clutches because as far as I know there is nothing stopping you from putting ANY clutch in either kit! Again I reiterate that Archie is now making/planning a kit that shifts an LS1 2" or whatever to the left. Can anyone explain to me why its ok for him to use this method all of the sudden but if another company does it their kit is no good and of poor quality???? I mean I have seen several frontwheel drive inports putting OVER 600HP to the road and yes thats DYNO proven HP so don't try and tell me you can't have good axles made for a swap like this. I still have yet to hear of any other technical issue with the kit that will cause it not to work.
By the way I have no clue what the purpose of those 2 links are. They seem entirely unrelated to the HTD kit.

I'm editing this message to thank Mrfixit for his post. As you can see from the tone of it he was almost hesitant to post it due to the risk of being flamed and thats what we need to fix about this forum. He stated pretty first hand knowledge and SPECIFIC issues regarding a similar kit in question.
Unfortunatly we have no way to know if the HTD kit is exactly the same and uses the same starter and other compnents. The overheating is kinda generic problem and the solutions of that are probably the same for both camps.

[This message has been edited by 85GToronto (edited 03-05-2002).]

..

[This message has been edited by Mylesf7 (edited 03-05-2002).]

never claimed to be an expert.. i have dealt with a few of Archies sytems (clutch replacements, engine upgrades, W/P replacement, and a cam change on one) I know they are well Engineered and how user-friendly they are. funny how the other kits haven't sold nearly as well and that there is litle information out there reguarding them. Why would anyone encourage somone to get an inferior product?

Here is a very direct question you can ask the htd guys that should tell you what you need to know....how may of their kits are on the road, running reliably? I really hate to offer less than encouraging info on companies that support the Fiero marketplace, but after speaking with these guys at length , I just did not get the impression that they really know what they are doing when it comes to v8 swaps or most of the other major upgrades they are offering. Best way to find out is to talk to them an make your own conclusions.

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: Is this kind of thread common on this forum when a question is asked? I really didn't want to start a pissing contest about who's kit is better!

No one wants to start a pissing contest. They just ignite on their own.... This is much more common in O/T, which is why a number of Forumers avoid it. My experience in this is personal, as I like to dive into the selected firefight over there. OTOH, I tend to be an observer in Tech, unless the question is simple enough for me to answer with a reasonable amount of certainty.

quote Does Archie sell stock for his company?

No. One of the things that starts contention here is loyalty. Don't dismiss the Forum because of this. We're a bit like Trekkies, but that doesn't mean that the subject of our affection lacks merit.

quote Well if Archie is going to move the engine over 2 inches for your lt1 install , why is it bad for the Hi-tech kit to do this??? Seems kinda hypocritical?

quote Seems to me if moving the motor over 2" suddenly is ok for an LT1 it should be ok for a SBC? I mean is there a valid arguement to deny that?

The answer was buried in a paragraph. The issue is not one with a conventional SBC:

quote An LS1 water pump is huge it sticks out about seven inches from the block and the thermostat housing even makes it worse because it protrudes to the back and will interfere with the strut tower. It is also non symmetrical in the way it connects to the engine so I can not flip it.

Just like any other family, we don't hear the answers over all the arguing.... The LS1 is a different enough engine, with different enough accessories, that some things are done of need, not of aesthetics (The Hi-Tech site mentioned that the engine is shifted by 2" to "maintain the stock look..." of the install).

To reanswer the origianl question, every one of us has his or her view of the "perfect" Fiero, just as any other rodder has a view of the "perfect" rod. There is no such thing. Yours is only perfect if it's perfect to you.

Whether fortuantely or unfortunately, we have as many opinions here of what that ideal is as we do Fieros. Possibly more. Don't take it personally, and you'll enjoy the Forum.

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First of all this thread is about the HTD kit-not Archies.(or at least it's SUPPOSED to be)
Secondly the issue of the engine shift isn't of the LS1 vs. the SBC but one of why you would want to use this method on the SBC. If there were NO adavantages to shifting the motor then of course it would be a simple answer. However there IS a benefit to doing this.
I'm still waiting for someone to give specific technical issues with the kit. I'll accept the fact that someone had a problem with an axle.
I'm thinking we're going to have to wait for Archie to post again before we get anywhere.

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: First of all this thread is about the HTD kit-not Archies.(or at least it's SUPPOSED to be)....... I'm thinking we're going to have to wait for Archie to post again before we get anywhere.

This thread could be the primer on comparisons between the kits if you all want it to be.

The originator of this thread ask about the HTD kit and there was a bunch of friction early on about how he didn't want to hear about anything else.

Since there is no one here that can give direct testimony about the HTD kit, it could be dificult to get direct input. Given that, I don't know how we can ONLY talk about the HTD kit without comparing it to my kit.

Right up front everyone needs to know that the HDT kit, the Fiero Plus kit, the Shelby kit the old Corson kit and a few others are direct and exact copies of what is known as the Zumalt kit. You don't have to take my word for it I can prove that to you later.

If the originator of this thread actually wants good documented information I can provide it to you. But if he wants to just believe everything he's told about the HTD kit then it will do no good for me to spend hours posting pics and providing him the information he needs to make an informed decision.

I have a very busy day today. Between having a dentist appointment and having to ship a bunch of parts out, I will not be able to address this issue until later this evening.

I can tell you the whole story about the Zumwalt kit and how it was engineered and how it developed & I can give you detailed information about who, when and why some engines are shifted over and some are not.

What I'm offering you is 100% documented information on ALL the features & facts surrounding the Zumwalt (et al) kits etc. I'll even tell you the story about how the Zumwalt kit was actually designed by someone else and how Zumwalt stole it from the actual designer. (& I can prove it).

So you guys tell me now..... do you want to know the real story? Should I bother to spend 4 or 5 hours tonite giving you the whole story? Or would you rather just bite down on everything you read on the HTD web site?

Archie

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Well Archie this isn't my thread although from my PM's I gather that Bob wants to know the technical details/problems with the kit as much as I do. I can and do respect your views and informtion on a competitors kit as much as anyone based on you/your companies reputation. We're all adults and can process the facts individually as we see fit no matter what the source. I personally don't want to write off a certain design based on the fact that there haven't been alot sold. Thats like saying the first 10 kits you sold were junk and I am sure no one here is about to say that. I am pretty sure thats NOT what makes or breaks a kit. There sure isn't a very large market for this sort of thing in Canada and based on the number of V8 Fiero's I've heard about even in here there's not a huge market in the US either so any company, especially one with a "new" product like this isn't likely to be selling 2 a week.
I hope you can take some time later to enlighten us to the background of where this kit came from and how HTD fits into it all. I am VERY eager to see why there have been flywheel clearance issues with this design and how all the knock off's differ from the Zumalt kit, if at all.
I appreciate you being up front as usual and I have no doubts that this kind of information and honesty with forum members is what makes people respect the way you run a business.
I personally won't have to think twice about where I will buy a clutch for my V8 when the time comes.

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: THANK YOU ARCHIE!!!!!!! For some reason I didn't think it would be long before you showed up in this thread and I am glad, you are the first person to actually bring up something technically relavent!

Obviously you cant read, 1 person has had personal experiance about shady business dealings from HTD. Several people have mentioned the same problems, all from different sources. 2 guys have seen these problems first hand, and another has seen the problems several times.
What part of that do you not understand?

quote Hell even though you are the competition of this kit I can at least have faith you'll call this one as you see it![/b]

Yes he will, he has nothing to hide.

quote I do however have some questions about the problems in your picture. Was that damage caused by someone turning down the flywheel?[/b]

After you looking at those pictures and don't see where the problem lies, you should not be commenting on anything technical at all! Come on its self explanitory!!!, Oh wait obviously you have no clue about the clutch disc / flywheel relationship to one another.

quote I mean I can't see it rubbing like that right out of the box? [/b]

Well golly-gee, that one did! See there is a clutch / flywheel issue that has surfaced up more than once.

quote This is the one area of the HTD kit that is so so, the flywheel bolts aren't what I'd like them to be because of the somewhat large SBC crank snout.[/b]

SO so?, Oh ya, how would you like that flywheel to come through the bell housing, and possibly the passanger compartment, or gas tank at 5000 rpm after the clutch issue wears the heads down off of those cap screws.
The problem is not with the end of the crank shaft, you must surely see now that that is a questionable design. Hell, it's plain not safe.
Archie uses REAL bolts, his kit is safe.

quote Were those all Zumwalt kits? Any of them sold under HTD's name that you know of?? Does anyone here know if both of the kits are EXACTLY the same[/b]

It looks exactly the same as Zumalts kits, and uses the same parts. Why do I know that you ask?, because I researched all the V8 kits before I decided to purchase one.

If you stick a coupe, and a fastback fiero together, there is a difference. If you stick 2 coupes together, they are the same.

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White V8 SOLD https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/006973.html

[This message has been edited by jelly2m8 (edited 03-05-2002).]

Why is it that these threads always end up resorting to name calling and saying things like "you obviously can't read" What is your problem anyway???

I have spoken directly to Adrift about his brake line quote and if this missinformation provided by an employee about a price is somehow related to the technical design of the kit, remember thats what we're supposed to be talking about here, then I obviously did miss something.

As far as the other problems you mention NO IN FACT I HAVEN'T SEEN THEM! You've provided nothing but "I know some guy had some problem with this or that" and I am sorry but I am not willing to base my views on that kind of information. I know I am not the only one either.

There is nothing self explainatory about those pictures. The clutch disc obviously contacted the flywheel. Whats caused this? Who knows, certainly not you or I by simply looking at the pics. The flywheel could have been turned down too thin, the throwout bearing could have over extended or the wrong clutch could have been installed or even installed backwards. Things happen and untill I hear the whole story I'm not going to jump to conclusions, you seem to have that well covered. Do you honestly think someone would sell a kit like this that rubbed like that even if you installed it exactly as directed with the parts recommended?? Explain to me why someone would do this? Sorry it doesn't make any sense to me. You would think it would take about 30 seconds to check this clearance before even bolting a single part together.

Once again you seem to resort to insulting my knowledge of clutch/flywheel relations to back up your arguement. Sadly I think this does exactly the opposite and its exactly THIS kind of comment that made me want to discuss this with several other forum members in PM. Its a funny thing not once have any of us called each other nasty names or said anything insulting. What does that tell you Jelly? Does this make me a moron that can't read? No this means I can listen and discuss in a civil manner technical issues without flying off the handle the second I disagree with someone's views or visa versa.

Who said that clutch rubbed right out of the box? Are you using your ESP here again? I won't comment on that any further.

Clearly the issue IS with the SBC crank snout as that can't be 'moved'. Sorry I "don't have enough knowledge" about the whole V8 swap, but I DO know that you can make the adapter plate as thin as you want, the crank snout IS the limiting factor. you can make the flywheel any way you want but the first thing you run out of room for is the crank! Look at the difference between the end of the 2.8 crank and the sbc crank and I am sure you'll agree.

Is the HTD flwheel exactly the same as the Zumalt flywheel? I know you don't know this for fact but I am sure you will claim too. After all they look the same in pics right?

As for the flywheel breaking apart sending shrapnel everywhere, this comment is based on what?????

I don't know why I broke my own rule in this thread and started talking tech in this post. I guess we'll go back to Pm's.

Looking forward to your post Archie

quote Originally posted by jelly2m8: SO so?, Oh ya, how would you like that flywheel to come through the bell housing, and possibly the passanger compartment, or gas tank at 5000 rpm after the clutch issue wears the heads down off of those cap screws. The problem is not with the end of the crank shaft, you must surely see now that that is a questionable design. Hell, it's plain not safe. Archie uses REAL bolts, his kit is safe.

And the Zumalt kit uses imaginary bolts?
That would have to be a hell of a lot of wear, considering that they're flush with the flywheel face.

The damage in Archie's pictures looks a lot like some incompetent buffoon installed the clutch disk backwards. I assume Archie would tell us if this were the case.

I can't imagine that any competent mechanic would even put the thing together with that kind of interference. Is it bad engineering or poor assembly?

I'm curious about this too Will. I'm not debating that there was contact but I wonder what made this happen? I could see if the clutch was being changed and the owner didn't know any better and maybe having the flywheel resurfaced. Or perhaps this flywheel is machined for just enough clearance with only one specific clutch disc and another brand/type was tried? I can see the flywheel being a "one shot deal" but as you say selling it like that right out of the box just sounds retarded. It's not like it would be any cheaper to design it that way than to actually give it enough clearance.
I also agree with the bolt comment. I think the car would be undrivable long before the bolt heads came off.

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: Why is it that these threads always end up resorting to name calling and saying things like "you obviously can't read" What is your problem anyway???

uum? WHAT? whos saying that? look on page one of this post at what you said to me! Practice what you preach.

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: Do you honestly think someone would sell a kit like this that rubbed like that even if you installed it exactly as directed with the parts recommended?? Explain to me why someone would do this?

I just got back from the dentist and I can't talk (type) long right now.

I don't really want to get into a flame war here I really really don't want that.

Let me just interject this comment.

The clutch does rub like this right from the get go. Believe it ofr not that's the truth.

You ask why someone would do that....... I'll explain that later when I give you the whole story.

After you've heard the whole story you'll be shaking your head all night.

You will not believe the total lack of engineering that went into the Z kit.

Archie

1fst2m6 I said your comment was dumba$$, and I stand by that when you read what the origional question was put forth by Bob. It didn't do a thing to further this thread and It wouldn't have made one bit of difference to anyone if it wasn't even there. I never called you a name or said you were stupid or couldn't read. You're comment was stupid, and irrelavent, thats all.

Sorry we have gotten so far off topic with this all.

You keep teasing us with all these tidbits Arch! It's making me mental, hehehe

I'll be watching for that post.

ARCHIE,

I, for one, would love to hear the whole story and I'm guessing a lot of other people would as well. I would, however, recommend that you start another thread with something like "The History of the V-8 Fiero" as the subject. Then in this topic just reference your thread. Once written, I would like your permission to publish your article in the newsletter for the Suncoast Fiero Club. For other non-computer Fiero people to enjoy.

Thanks,

------------------
Roy :D
Just another stock Blue 87 GT
Suncoast Fieros

JUST ADDED: YELLOW 1988 GT w/ T-Tops, 5-Speed, and Performance Sound.

Great idea about the new thread Roy.
I will be looking for it tonight.

Actually I'm pretty disappointed by all this! All I asked was does anyone have any information on a specific product. I didn't get the responses I expected from a group of adults!
If America thought like you guys do about new and different products. You would all still be using computers that couldn't share information because everybody would still be using OEM specific os's.,Like CPM or VM, but thanks to Bill you can do all sorts of cool things. IBM would still be marketing the original PC 8088 4.77mhz. Because they did it first! So why develop newer faster, better systems? The Internet wouldn't exist as it does today to make all this possible! Competition in an open market place is a GOOD thing it helps develop new and better products!!! Just because Archie was the FIRST doesn't make the BEST and ONLY choice!! Other kits would force Archie and others to continue to develop and refine their products to be better for US! Would you still want to be driving cars with points and condensers!! I sure wouldn't!!

I looked at Archie's kit about 4 years ago, I didn't like it then and I don't like it know. I've looked many times at his website to see how he is "developing" the kit. He hasn't changed it much in 11 years!!!. Would you by 11-year-old new cars?? It still uses solid motor mounts after 11 years you would think he would have "engineered" something that wouldn't rattle your teeth out! Although when I spoke to him 4 years ago he told me a rubber mount was in the works and would be available shortly. Well where is it???? My car is a 1988 it doesn't have the rubber mounts on the sub frame that his kit relies on to dampen the noise out. I don't know about you guys but I've had cars with solid mounts it sucks! Or wait how about the chop top kit that should be available "in A year or two " well where is the kit???? Or update instructions on the web site that states "new" photos will be available soon! That was 3 years ago? So you really shouldn't sell/market you product by just pointing out the bad things about the other "guys" product.

As for moving the motor 2 inches, you guys still miss the point!!! The point is that (I'll try to be real clear) The first thing I heard from this forum was how bad it was to do that at all. Why would someone re-center the engine? With all the problems with different size axles and all the problems associated with it. EVEN Archie says that's bad, well that is unless Archie re-engineers HIS kit for an LT1 then it's all OK! Whew I'm glad Archie says it's OK for His kit to do that. Gimme a break moving the engine is either bad or it's not! Whether Archie does it or someone else.

Oh ' I did speak with the people at HTD. They seem like pretty good guys. They are sending all the info I wanted. But According to them their kit isn't a rip off. They bought the rights to the kit legitimately. Is that bad? They bought a product and are tring to market the product. AND I WANT TO LOOK AT IT. Is it that you don't like competition Archie? You seem to like to badmouth other products. If it's crap I won't consider it. I'm not dumb ,, just shopping.

Gee I hope my flaming back offends nobody!!! But get real!! Read what you write. Don't just follow because someone tells you to!!
So I'll ask again so does anybody have first hand experience with this kit? Not you Archie I think you might be kind of biased against them!
I'll keep listening.

Responded to wrong message, sorry! (I'm trying to figure out how it happened too!)

[This message has been edited by Adrift (edited 03-06-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: Actually I'm pretty disappointed by all this! .... Is it that you don't like competition Archie? You seem to like to badmouth other products.

I'm getting pretty disappointed too.

I've just spent the last 2 hours writing a new thread on this topic and I have another 2 hours to go before the 1st segment is ready.

I don't really care which V-8 kit you buy. To be honest, If you did buy their kit, I wouldn't mind as long as you make an informed decision.

You've tried very hard in you latest post to insult me but I'm to tired to get into it with you tonight.

I would like to ask you a question however. If you go to the PFF link to "Fiero Parts Vendors", you'll find that HTD has a listing there. When that Vendor list was established it was clear that you had to be a member of PFF to list your business in that area. It is obvious by your posts that you are an advocate of the HTD kit. And it is clear that someone at HTD is a member of this group. Here is the question.... Why do you think that HTD has not bothered to participate here in your thread?

Archie

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: I've looked many times at his website to see how he is "developing" the kit. He hasn't changed it much in 11 years!!!. Would you by 11-year-old new cars

Well, I'm surprised that you view lack of change as always being a bad thing. This is somewhat off topic, but it is relateable to the issue at hand....I'm a closet-VW-geek. You've heard of them before,right, the Volkswagen Beetle? Yeah, they hardly changed over a matter of over 25 years. I can use parts on my VW that were made for a car ten years earlier to ten years later. When somebody originally bought my car, they DID buy an 11 year old new car. You know what...they still do in Mexico to this day! People buy 35 year old new cars...because they do what they're supposed to.

Do you know why they rarely changed the designs? Because it worked, plain and simple. By having a design that works, you don't need to change it all the time. Further, by having fewer "design cycles" and no increased costs for new part design, the price of the item won't go up to pay for something the buyer isn't getting.

The silverware you eat with has been the same design for centuries. The standard mailbox has been the same for decades. The chair you're sitting on right now is probably a design that's more than 11 years old. Sometimes, you just get things right.

Ok, I'm done, continue.

Bryce
88 GT

By simply looking at what's available with the HTD kit, I wouldn't buy the thing. Why? They want too much for the kit.
Ordering someone elses kit and the axles avalilable for LT1 use, ($550, according to www.fierolt1.com) I could (if i wanted to) have a functionally similar kit that trades the parts I don't need for ones I can actually use, and get it for less than the HTD kit. (Or alot less if I did it a similar way using that someone's basic kit and shopping around for all the right parts in the first place.)
Personally, I'd do it a different way from those and save myself some headaches, but you don't want to hear about it.
What I really hate is being called a lemming (Although you didn't actually refer to me, or actually use the term "lemming", you effectively did so.) Because I've done my own reasearch and came up with the same conclusion as almost everyone else has.

If you want to paddle against the current, go ahead. Just don't complain if the current takes you the way you don't want to go.

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: [B]1fst2m6, It's dumba$$ comments like that that cause intelligent people to avoid posting USEFULL technical information in posts like this cause they(I) can't stand putting up with USELESS posts like yours. DID IT HELP BOB IN ANY WAY WHAT YOU SAID???!! No it didn't so WHY BOTHER SAYING SOMETHING SO STUPID!? B]

Geez Toronto, it's been awhile since I've felt the urge to flame someone. I don't understand why you flamed 1FST2M6 when all he did was state his opinion(without flaming anyone.) One sentence is all he posted, and STILL you take time out of your day to get nasty over something so f*cking stupid. You make me sick, and if you were here in front of me I would vomit blood all over your pretty pink dress. You should sell your Fiero to someone who isn't a prick... You don't deserve it. You need to find yourself a nice rusty 1980 Honda Civic with a blown engine. You make me embarrassed to call myself a human. Amen and God Bless.

Your Pal,
GT Bastard

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