Wow, the level of cheapness and overall lack of class of someFiero owners never ceases to amaze me.

In the year 2002, if you have to even ask about a non-archie V8 kit... well... I just don't know...

Kind of like asking "Ok, so who *BESIDES* NASA can send my sattelite into orbit?

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

"Geez Toronto, it's been awhile since I've felt the urge to flame someone. I don't understand why you flamed 1FST2M6 when all he did was state his opinion(without flaming anyone.) One sentence is all he posted, and STILL you take time out of your day to get nasty over something so f*cking stupid......."

ok till this point I can accept, you're right...

" You make me sick, and if you were here in front of me I would vomit blood all over your pretty pink dress. You should sell your Fiero to someone who isn't a prick... You don't deserve it. You need to find yourself a nice rusty 1980 Honda Civic with a blown engine. You make me embarrassed to call myself a human. Amen and God Bless.

Your Pal,
GT Bastard "

Ummmmmmm, ok.........I have no idea where THAT came from.

I have already apologised to 1fst2m6 and we've exchanged a few emails over the whole issue. I don't think I called him any names or said anything other than I thought what he said was stupid and off topic( I think you took it just a LITTLE farther than I did). I am pretty sure we are cool. I admitted I probably overreacted and he caught the brunt of it due too my growing frustration that half the posts up untill that point(including the very first reply I might add) were completely OFF topic and not providing ANY USEFULL insight into the actual question at hand. I have quite a bit of interest in this topic obviously, and also found it frustrating that we seemed to only be hearing about Archies kit which we've all heard about 100 times. That was NOT the question and Bob even quickly pointed that out. One only has to read half the V8 threads on PFF to see my frustration on this kind of topic. I mean by the time you get to the second page of half of them you feel like a moron posting something relavent to the origional question because your post is sandwhiched between 10 posts that have NOTHING to do with the real/origional question(check out the ford V8 thread for a perfect example).

As for your reply to me it just doesn't even warrant one so I'm done.

For anyone who needs to see it here,

1fst2m6 I am sorry I took out my frustrations about the direction of this thread on you and your comment. I have no problems with you as I stated earlier since I obviously don't even know you. I am pretty sure from our email exchange we are cool with each other.

Sorry 1fst2m6, Cliff, anyone else I offended and above all Bob

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: If America thought like you guys do about new and different products. You would all still be using computers that couldn't share information because everybody would still be using OEM specific os's.,Like CPM or VM, but thanks to Bill you can do all sorts of cool things. IBM would still be marketing the original PC 8088 4.77mhz. Because they did it first! So why develop newer faster, better systems? The Internet wouldn't exist as it does today to make all this possible! Competition in an open market place is a GOOD thing it helps develop new and better products!!! Just because Archie was the FIRST doesn't make the BEST and ONLY choice!! Other kits would force Archie and others to continue to develop and refine their products to be better for US! Would you still want to be driving cars with points and condensers!! I sure wouldn't!!

Just a comment on the above. You are ASSUMING that the HTD kit is a NEW design? Even if they bought the rights to the make and sell the parts under their name, It is still an old design. It doesn't matter that someone else is selling a copy or making the Zuwalt kit and re-naming it as their kit. The design is the same. If HTD had designed their own kit rather than buying the rights to make and sell the Zuwalt kit, Then the above would make sense. I have no experience with V-8 kits. I can only go by what I have heard second hand thru the years. Many have had problems with the Z-kits. From what I have read in above posts, it sounds like HTD has simular problems with theirs. If you don't like Archie's kit that is fine but it sounds like (from previous posts in this thread) that the HTD kit has it's problems too. Innovation comes from others who don't like what is available. So on that note, instead of going with a problem ridden set-up like HTD's sounds like or a kit you don't like, like Archies, why don't you design your own?

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: He hasn't changed it much in 11 years!!!. Would you by 11-year-old new cars?? It still uses solid motor mounts after 11 years you would think he would have "engineered" something that wouldn't rattle your teeth out!

Just looked at the link to HTD's site. Umm, they use solid mounts too. They show motor mounts that are bolted to the cradle. So either kit uses solid mounts.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-06-2002).]

I haven't (and won't) read this whole thing.

There's a few things on their site that really bug me...

1) "They [the 1/2 shafts] will handle upwards of 500 H/P."
Isn't a torque rating more useful here? HP will NOT snap a 1/2 shaft, torque WILL.

2) "It [the aluminum adapter plate] is then polished to a chrome finish."
How do you polish aluminum to a "chrome finish"?! It's just polished. You could say a "mirror finish" if you want, but chrome has nothing to do with it.

3) "This is a brand new Fiero unit that will handle a maximum of 300 H/P engine."
Again, isn't torque a more fitting measurement of what it will handle? Also, if I'm swapping in a V8, I had BETTER get more than 300hp.

4) "This custom aluminum idler is made to use with our kit and is polished to a chrome finish."
Again with the chrome finish on aluminum.

5) "This is a brand new H/P clutch disc that should be used with motors over 300 H/P. It has 8 pads on each side that will not slip. This will give the motor good hook up with no H/P loss."
I can't even begin to go into what all's wrong with this. "Over 300hp"...up to what?! "Will not slip"...guaranteed?! Kind of an iffy statement. "No HP loss"?! Uh huh...suuuuuure.

If I ever decide to go with a V8, even if it's not an SBC, Archie's my first call.

------------------

TRiAD Motorsports ~ Performance Tuning of European, Japanese and Domestic Automobiles
Project MR1 / Let the modding begin! ~ triadtuning@hotmail.com * AIM ~ Michael Blue 72
Only the dead have seen the end of war. ~ Plato

Wow. That is the only thing I can think of to say. I am almost speechless, but I do want to say that I am extremely disappointed. One thing that I have learned so far is that there is a great deal of nepotism amongst the Fiero community. In other words, there is not much of a chance of establishing yourself in a business venture when going up against the demigod that you all developed in Archie... No offense intended to Archie.

I have only been here for a few months, so I still consider myself new, but man I am learning a lot.

It seems to me that if HTD was smart they'd step into this discussion about now. Several of us already KNOW they are reading this so why not join the discussion and give us their side of the story???? Its going to get told by Archie one way or another so they might be better off to give their 2 cents and see how it matches with Archies version. Then we can all make our own conclusions for ourselves after hearing both sides.
It IS possible to do that in a non-flaming way if everyone tries.........

Ok Toronto, so I really didn't mean the second 1/2 of my post. I had a bad day, and I thought that I would try to blow-out YOUR candle to make MINE burn brighter. Can I have a hug?

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: Again these measurements are not perfect and some(all) of the parts involved are used. I'm leaning towards making my adapterplate 3/4" thick if I make a custom flywheel or sticking with 1" if I use the stock 350 flywheel I have recently purchased. Did anyone follow me there? Its hard to explain without being able to frantically wave my hands all over-hehe

Actually, if I remember a post Archie made about V8 kits, he adressed that issue. I thought that the link to that thread was posted here, but it was the wrong one. If I find it, I'll post it here, but with Archies new post, I may not have to.
If I remember that thread correctly, you are on the right track though.

Hey Bob, I've been following this thread to see where it's headed. I even had a couple friends that went to HTD to look at their kit and facilities. Their conclusion after the trip was that they weren't 100% satisfied with either HTD's or Archie's Kit (which they've seen in a couple cars), they would make changes to both. Both of these guy's are automotive engineers with very good design knowledge.

A lot of people have been "Pro Archie" in this thread because it is the best kit available for the novice, period. Also, it appears that Archie does support his customers, with few complaints. I think people are just trying to steer you the right way so that you don't to explore new ground and added expense.

On the other hand, if someone has excellent mechanical knowledge related to the overall vehicle, he/she could make improvements to these kits, or "brew" their own. Nearly all the people on this Forum will not advise you to go in this direction, because they don't know what your abilities are, exactly what your shooting for, and if you could afford going this direction in time and money.

I'm running a "modified" Zumalt kit in my car which has been running since 1993 (I'm the second owner, bought it in Mar.'99), with no problems that can be directly attributed to poor design (as installed). Design changes to the kit included the flywheel, clutch setup, and cradle modifications. These changes were determined/executed by Keith Huff of FieroMotorsports in CA at the request of the car owner, who wanted a professional conversion. Keith took 3 months with a lot of attention to detail to do this conversion, and it took months more to "dial in" the proper clutch setup that would satisfy the owner, who formally raced raced for the Porsche Factory Race Team. They burnt up 4 different kinds of performance clutch setups before they found one that could take "race" punishment.

So it's really a matter of, what are your dreams, how smart you are, who you know, how big your wallet is, and what you intend to use the car for.

I already know a lot of what Archie is going to say in the thread he started about the Z kit (Keith Huff pretty much filled me in on his dealings with Zumalt, pretty wild story). I'm sure it will be a good read and we can all learn a little more about the design/mechanics of a conversion kit. Hopefully it will generate new ideas that would lead to even better options for all who plan to do a conversion.

If you're looking for "plug and play" give Archie a call, if not the field is wide open to your imagination.

Just my thoughts!

Damn typo! were should have been weren't.
------------------
http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-06-2002).]

I'd love to see that thread Pontiac.....It doesn't sound like its one I have come across yet as I don't recall any that gave specific measurments.

'Kid thanks for posting, its too bad you hadn't done so days ago because I am sure this would have forced this thread in a totally different yet more productive direction.
Any specific information about the modifications to your kit that you can share with us? Assuming you know what they were of course. I'd love to hear more about your car and setup.

Thanks for the input. Do you have any pix you could e-mail to me. I do have a good supply of mechanical knowledge and well supplied garage to perform any work I choose to. I do understand that the HTD kit also uses a solid mount. But I think that information could have been supplied in a better “tone”.

It's not the "good" intentions that concerned me, it’s not the “help” steering, it’s the mechanism used to do the steering. I was basically told I have to be crazy to even LOOK at anything other than Archies kit… Blah ,blah blah,,,, Like I can’t look and think ,determine myself about a product. I was just looking for some input about a product.

Some of you guys have been very helpful. You know who you are and I thank you very much!

quote Originally posted by California Kid: Hey Bob, I've been following this thread to see where it's headed. I even had a couple friends that went to HTD to look at their kit and facilities. Their conclusion after the trip was that they were 100% satisfied with either HTD's or Archie's Kit (which they've seen in a couple cars), they would make changes to both. Both of these guy's are automotive engineers with very good design knowledge. A lot of people have been "Pro Archie" in this thread because it is the best kit available for the novice, period. Also, it appears that Archie does support his customers, with few complaints. I think people are just trying to steer you the right way so that you don't to explore new ground and added expense. On the other hand, if someone has excellent mechanical knowledge related to the overall vehicle, he/she could make improvements to these kits, or "brew" their own. Nearly all the people on this Forum will not advise you to go in this direction, because they don't know what your abilities are, exactly what your shooting for, and if you could afford going this direction in time and money. I'm running a "modified" Zumalt kit in my car which has been running since 1993 (I'm the second owner, bought it in Mar.'99), with no problems that can be directly attributed to poor design (as installed). Design changes to the kit included the flywheel, clutch setup, and cradle modifications. These changes were determined/executed by Keith Huff of FieroMotorsports in CA at the request of the car owner, who wanted a professional conversion. Keith took 3 months with a lot of attention to detail to do this conversion, and it took months more to "dial in" the proper clutch setup that would satisfy the owner, who formally raced raced for the Porsche Factory Race Team. They burnt up 4 different kinds of performance clutch setups before they found one that could take "race" punishment. So it's really a matter of, what are your dreams, how smart you are, who you know, how big your wallet is, and what you intend to use the car for. I already know a lot of what Archie is going to say in the thread he started about the Z kit (Keith Huff pretty much filled me in on his dealings with Zumalt, pretty wild story). I'm sure it will be a good read and we can all learn a little more about the design/mechanics of a conversion kit. Hopefully it will generate new ideas that would lead to even better options for all who plan to do a conversion. If you're looking for "plug and play" give Archie a call, if not the field is wide open to your imagination. Just my thoughts!

Man, did this turn into a clusterf..er.. mess.
Bob asked for some info/experience on a specific vendor/part, and after some expected attempts to make sure he might want to consider another vendor/part, the poor guys thread went south. If I was to go with a V8, I would probably go with an Archie kit. I have met him, I have seen Fieros with his work in them, I have seen him support his product and he is always on here so I know he isn't going to "dissapear" tomm.
But! Bob isn't me. He isn't any of you. He is Bob-in-NH. Bob was looking for specific info only on another brand, not looking for a hard time or to get caught up in some "who's is better" argument for three + pages.

Now with many of you throwing in your poor attitudes, in-fighting and silly arguing, you have soured this poor guys thread and probably his impressions of this overall great forum. He is a Fiero lover too, and deserves the same respect and right to look at and buy what he chooses like the rest of us.

Archie has tried to calm this thread down, and since his product has come up so many times in regards to the other one Bob was "really" asking about, he is doing a good job of trying to be informative while not being pushy. As much as Archie can (no insult intended)

If someone wants to add a "different" paint job, or some radical mods, or a ricer wing to his Fiero, after a bit of saying I personally don't like it you people all move on.

Why can't you people do that here? If you don't have anything to add to what Bob is "specifically" asking for, you shouldn't be saying anything at all now.

What's wrong with this picture?

Poor guy. Geeze!

Steve

Well said Fiero5 , thank you for you support! I'm not totally turned off by all this . I am quite suprized though!

quote Originally posted by Fiero5: Man, did this turn into a clusterf..er.. mess. Bob asked for some info/experience on a specific vendor/part, and after some expected attempts to make sure he might want to consider another vendor/part, the poor guys thread went south. If I was to go with a V8, I would probably go with an Archie kit. I have met him, I have seen Fieros with his work in them, I have seen him support his product and he is always on here so I know he isn't going to "dissapear" tomm. But! Bob isn't me. He isn't any of you. He is Bob-in-NH. Bob was looking for specific info only on another brand, not looking for a hard time or to get caught up in some "who's is better" argument for three + pages. Now with many of you throwing in your poor attitudes, in-fighting and silly arguing, you have soured this poor guys thread and probably his impressions of this overall great forum. He is a Fiero lover too, and deserves the same respect and right to look at and buy what he chooses like the rest of us. Archie has tried to calm this thread down, and since his product has come up so many times in regards to the other one Bob was "really" asking about, he is doing a good job of trying to be informative while not being pushy. As much as Archie can (no insult intended) If someone wants to add a "different" paint job, or some radical mods, or a ricer wing to his Fiero, after a bit of saying I personally don't like it you people all move on. Why can't you people do that here? If you don't have anything to add to what Bob is "specifically" asking for, you shouldn't be saying anything at all now. What's wrong with this picture? Poor guy. Geeze! Steve

85GToronto & Bob,

I wish I could give you all the specific details, but being the "second hand" owner doesn't allow me to get down to the exact changes. The person that can technically answer exactly what was changed is Keith Huff (think you can reach him through WCF, but don't know if he'd be willing to take the time to get into detail with anyone). Only very minor structural metal changes were made in this conversion, a dime size removeall of metal on the right shock tower for TPS sensor clearance and a very small area at the left frame rail (which was boxed in with additonal metal welded in for strength) for clearance to the trans tailstock of the 5spd Getrag.

The most sigificant changes were to the flywheel which has an insert plate (tool steel) at the clutch disk bearing surface. It was also machined to accept the QuarterMaster double disk clutch setup.

I do have a 4 page article from "Fiero Owner" 2nd Quarter '95 titled V8 Build that was written by Keith Huff about my car. It doesn't get into exact hard specifics and doesn't cover the QuarterMaster setup, which was done after the article was written (you'd also have to be willing to shell out about $1,000 to go with this clutch setup, which I would recommend for hp/torque over 330). I can e-mail this article to you, but each page is about 2MB and don't know what size mail box you have (can't post here on Pennock's because you would be able to read them in the size permitted for posting).

I've never had a reason to disect and dimensionally check this conversion, the most significant change that I've made to the clutch setup was to replace the flywheel insert plate (that was warped due to severe heat abuse during clutch testing phase), and machining off 0.020" from the flywheel mateing surface of the QuarterMaster housing ring (to reduce "free air" stack in the clutch pak for longer disk life). The race clutch disk's are only good for about 10 to 20k miles depending on how you drive the car (my case, pretty hard and I'm over 10k on the current set and still no slip in sight).

It will take some time, but do a search on California Kid in General Topic and Tech. I've posted nearly all I know about my car on this Forum.

Sorry to say that Keith Huff is the only one I know that can tell you exact details. Also know that Keith would not encourage anyone to run the hp/torque that I am, it's flirtin' on the edge to all parts concerned.

I apreciate the reply non the less 'Kid
I am curious what year the motor in your car is? This will explain alot about the earlier discussed bolt clearance issue.
I wish I had a late model 350 with crank to measure..

My mail box can take whatever you can send. So if you could send the article I'd very much like to read it. Thanks California Kid

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: I apreciate the reply non the less 'Kid I am curious what year the motor in your car is? This will explain alot about the earlier discussed bolt clearance issue. I wish I had a late model 350 with crank to measure..

Engine used in my conversion is a '91 Corvette L98 and it does use the "cone" bolts at the flywheel with no problems, the insert ring on flywheel goes right up to the edge of the bolts (clutch hub which has no springs (solid plate with splined hubs riveted on) and doesn't get anywhere near the bolts, just in case you're wondering).
Picture of 7.25" QuarterMaster clutch disk (1 of 2 with steel floater plate in between the disk's)(flywheel side shown)

Floater plate that rides within the clutch pak housing:

Clutch pak housing ring is high grade Titanium with extensive machining (no picture) that these parts fit in to, and pressure plate goes on end, all fastened to flywheel with long bolts.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-06-2002).]

Thats exactly what my next question was going to be 'Kid. Something must have been done to gain clearance in that area.
What effect does removing the springs in the clutch disc have?

I also want more info on the V8 kits but it does sound like there isn't enough data yet from current forum members. I think 85GToronto and NewHampshireBob should buy the HTD kits drive them awhile (at least 10 or 15K miles) and post their findings here. Now obviously they won't be able to compare with Arch's kits but they can give a couple of more data points on the HTD kit. Go for it guys!!!

quote Originally posted by Bob_in_NH: My mail box can take whatever you can send. So if you could send the article I'd very much like to read it. Thanks California Kid

In transit, will take a while, just have a "dial up" on this end.

I don't think I have quite enough info at this point to just drop $5k on an experiment. But I might just be looking at late summer or fall purchase. Good winter project for next year. It will keep me out of trouble! Got nabbed today in my vette speeding oops! $75

quote Originally posted by 87GTZ34: I also want more info on the V8 kits but it does sound like there isn't enough data yet from current forum members. I think 85GToronto and NewHampshireBob should buy the HTD kits drive them awhile (at least 10 or 15K miles) and post their findings here. Now obviously they won't be able to compare with Arch's kits but they can give a couple of more data points on the HTD kit. Go for it guys!!!

quote Originally posted by 85GToronto: Thats exactly what my next question was going to be 'Kid. Something must have been done to gain clearance in that area. What effect does removing the springs in the clutch disc have?

From what I can see it allows the clutch disc to get closer to the flywheel, ie no spring humb stamping or springs taking up space.

Really has no effect except that with this system you aren't suppose to slip the clutch (really bad news for race clutches anyway, the compound is different and thin so it doesn't hold heat). You just let the clutch out a little faster than you normally would, hardly any rpm required for a V8 anyway. It's just a little racing way to get going, you have to be careful if you're drinking coffee (hehe). Most people I take for a drive don't even comment about the starts from stop, it's pretty suttle.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-06-2002).]

Well I am certainly not about to lay out that kind of cash for the HTD kit either. It might not have been mentioned yet in this thread but I'm not 100% sold on EITHER of the kits. Now since I am confident that I can design and program a CNC machine to make the adapter and flywheel (if I choose to make my own FW) I'm in a little different situation than most. I'm not affraid to fabricate my own kit using what I think to be the best compromise of ways of attacking the swap. Obviously this is not for everyone and some people want to pay for a bolt up kit and be done with it. The reason people have mistaken me to be "pro HTD" is that I haven't heard any specific issues brought up about it, at least not in my views, and thus am not convinced that its any worse than any other kit. I am on the edge of my seat awaiting the next installment of Archie's post.

Thats very interesting 'Kid. I would not have thought one could remove the springs without a more adverse affect on streetablity. Not that I was about to go and design my own clutch but its good to know none the less.

Here's a cutaway side view of the (3-plate version) of the QM 7.25" clutch;

More info can be had at: http://www.racingclutches.com/

Tom? would you say that with this clutch, it'd be a streatch for the car to be your daily-driver?

(though certinly it could be your good-weather driver, if you lived not too far from work in a country/few-stop-signs area. That's pretty much what my stock Fiero is right now actually.)

The lack of any springs in the clutch pack means that the Zumalt kit's flywheel has no more clearance issues with them... as they're gone...

Something like a Koush-loc springless clutch could also maybe work?

But the gist of this is that unless you like doing the other 25% of engineering left to get the swap runnable, have or have access-to, a good machine shop and parts designers.... well, you get the idea.

Best!
Ben.

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Ram's kevlar clutch for the Fiero is also void of dampening springs here is the standard clutch disk and it side by side. The stock one is flywheel side up the Ram one is flywheel side down. But the ram one will hit the sleeve the throughout bearing rides on if un modified in a getrag

quote Originally posted by artherd: Tom? would you say that with this clutch, it'd be a streatch for the car to be your daily-driver? Best! Ben.

If you get the 3 disk setup to package on the trans splined shaft, it would be one hell of a daily driver with a lot of clutch life.

For those of you who Ben and I haven't talked to about the QuarterMaster setup, there is an issue with packaging the 3 disk versus the 2 disk setup. Ben is working with QuarterMaster trying to get it to package on his Getrag/Northstar conversion. This could lead to a "break through" for the high horsepower guys with disk changes not required until about 30k to 40k miles, because it's a 1/3rd increase in surface area.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: For those of you who Ben and I haven't talked to about the QuarterMaster setup, there is an issue with packaging the 3 disk versus the 2 disk setup.

I don't know alot about this setup, though i have been listening to you discuss it on other threads.
I was wondering how far the transmission splines go into the clutch setup.
Instead of extending the splines farther down the mainshaft, would it be possible to use a thicker trans adapter plate and still have enough spline engagement for a triple disk clutch?
Since I've not decided on an engine swap for my car, much less a kit. I figured I'd throw that idea out there for consideration.

For the people asking HTD questions. Ask them if they sell their kit in pieces, say all the fabricated parts, without the starter and pullies and stuff you can buy at any parts store.

[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 03-07-2002).]

quote Originally posted by Pontiaddict: [QUOTE]Originally posted by California Kid: [b]For those of you who Ben and I haven't talked to about the QuarterMaster setup, there is an issue with packaging the 3 disk versus the 2 disk setup.

Pontiaddict Posted:
I don't know alot about this setup, though i have been listening to you discuss it on other threads.
I was wondering how far the transmission splines go into the clutch setup.
Instead of extending the splines farther down the mainshaft, would it be possible to use a thicker trans adapter plate and still have enough spline engagement for a triple disk clutch?
Since I've not decided on an engine swap for my car, much less a kit. I figured I'd throw that idea out there for consideration.
[/QUOTE]
That's a very good question, from talking to Keith Huff and Charlie Williams (previous owner), I don't think they considered this option, as they felt the 2 disk setup would get the job done, so they didn't spend much time trying to package the 3 disk (which they felt needed about 5mm more spline shaft engagement to package).

The 2 disk setup works fantastic, don't get me wrong, it doesn't lack anything except long term wear. I only put 5-6k miles on my car a year (summer fun, hard driving), so getting 3 years life out of the 2 disk setup doesn't bother me. The 3 disk would not benefit me except to increase the mileage before replacement.

For someone starting a fresh conversion the 3 disk setup would be the way to go, you'll get more mileage of the disks, and you could significantly pump the hp/torque over my setup (caution here, because you're going to find the next weakest link which will probably be the trans or CV's). Frankly, I'd like to see someone build a monster just to see what happens (hehe).

While I really like my car, if I were to start from scratch, I'd consider trying to package a Grand National Turbo type engine in the fore/aft direction through a 4spd auto (never have been real keen on the transverse setup). I think there is enough room without frame stretching and cutting into the trunk area. Just a dream, but I think it could be a great package, if you could adapt a trans for it.

Hey, just some thoughts for the brainstormers.

------------------
http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-07-2002).]

Workin on it buddy, workin on it

There's enough splined legenth on our input shafts (that's not dirty It's just a matter of positioning the clutch body itself wrt the power take-off of our engines. Tricky. (if you went to a 1" adapter plate<from teh 1/2", it'd probally clear

I'm looking for ~25-30kmiles, if I get anymore, I'll jump for happy happy joy!

More surface area == more material to heat == clutch dosen't get quite as hot quite as fast either (I hope!

QM still has my flexplate, everyone on PFF will know more when I do!

Best!
Ben.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: [QUOTE]Originally posted by artherd: [b]Tom? would you say that with this clutch, it'd be a streatch for the car to be your daily-driver? Best! Ben.

If you get the 3 disk setup to package on the trans splined shaft, it would be one hell of a daily driver with a lot of clutch life.

For those of you who Ben and I haven't talked to about the QuarterMaster setup, there is an issue with packaging the 3 disk versus the 2 disk setup. Ben is working with QuarterMaster trying to get it to package on his Getrag/Northstar conversion. This could lead to a "break through" for the high horsepower guys with disk changes not required until about 30k to 40k miles, because it's a 1/3rd increase in surface area.

[/B][/QUOTE]

------------------

Ben Cannon
88 Formula, T-top, Metalic Red. "Every Man Dies, not every man really Lives"
88 Formula, Northstar, Silver, In-Progreess. -Mel Gibson, "Braveheart"

Hey guys, I wasn't suggesting an experiment but more like a project. I'm sure if you really are not happy with a V8 Fiero, you could sell it for a profit and start over.

Hello to all PFF Members:
I would like to take this opportunity to introduce myself, my name is Tom Pacheco, manager of HTD Hi-Tech Development. On behalf of our company, I would like to appologize for the delay of this response, but I needed a few days to cool down after reading some of the comments made on this post. First off, I would like to give you a short history of our company. We have been in business at our current location since 1986, serving the Greater Toronto Area. We have been servicing and racing Fieros for the past 8 years, extensivly modifying suspension, brakes and engines to acheive 275hp at the rear wheels, naturally aspirated, which makes our race car highly competitive in autocross events. After 5 years of research and development on the 2.8 V6, we realized that we needed to acheive more power and shifted our focus to other types of engine conversions. We decided that the V8 conversion would be the most desirable direction.When we began our research we found that there were two existing styles of V8 conversions already on the market. Upon consulting with different fiero companies, we discovered that the rights to the Corrson Kit were for sale, and proceeded to purchase it. Once we recieved the kit, we realized there were a numbrer of errors that needed to be corrected, so we made the necessary adjustments to improve the kit. Still unsatisfied with the solid mounting of the engine and transmission, we created a next generation V8 Conversion Kit that was completely rubber mounted. After two and a half more years of research and development, we produced our sub frame, which eliminated the bump steer issues on the 84-87 models. We service fieros for the love of the cars, not soley to make proffit.(although, these projects do help finance our own toys!) This is why we will not do a conversion to certain models (namely 1988 models which were limited in production). We do agree that Archie deserves recognition for his contributions to the development of the V8 Kit. I would like to make one comment: we are all here for one reason; we love fieros! So when I see all this name calling that is happening on this forum, I feel like we are acting like children. I understand the V8 is a touchy subject, but Bob was only asking for information and experiences with our kit. I will attempt to answer all technical questions tommorrow. On behalf of our webmaster, we would like to appologize for any errors that are on our web page. (all he knows about cars is where the gas goes!). Thank You

Welcome to the Forum Tom! Hope you'll take the time to share your thoughts with all of us. There are quite a few people looking at their options and trying to determine what is best for their dreams. I think everybody stands to gain something when the cards are thrown out onto the table.

------------------

http://www.cartsys.com/fiero/cal-engine.wav

Could you explain the changes you made to the kit, 86gtv8?

[This message has been edited by Pontiaddict (edited 03-07-2002).]

Thanks Tom, I'm really looking forward to more information on your kit.

Great it will be interesting to hear both sides of the story. The other thread is like asking GM what they think of Ford

quote Originally posted by LS1swap: Great it will be interesting to hear both sides of the story. The other thread is like asking GM what they think of Ford

LOL!!! Thanks pretty funny! There is a lot of truth to your statement though. Believe it or not, I could tell you guy's some stories about automotive product development inside GM and Chrysler that would really sit you back in your seat. The only thing that keeps the major product "under engineered" items from getting to the customer is that they have so many people evaluting it during development (which is typically a 4 year cycle). Always room for improvement, just look at the changes in the last 15 years.

quote Originally posted by California Kid: [QUOTE]Originally posted by LS1swap: [b]Great it will be interesting to hear both sides of the story. The other thread is like asking GM what they think of Ford

LOL!!! Thanks pretty funny! There is a lot of truth to your statement though. Believe it or not, I could tell you guy's some stories about automotive product development inside GM and Chrysler that would really sit you back in your seat. The only thing that keeps the major product "under engineered" items from getting to the customer is that they have so many people evaluting it during development (which is typically a 4 year cycle). Always room for improvement, just look at the changes in the last 15 years.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Do tell! Do tell!

quote Originally posted by FieroGTS: Do tell! Do tell!

Look at it this way, the only thing that gets wide publicity about any Auto Manufacturer is "Recalls". These are a big deal because a design element is flawed or someone let some parts below specifications into the system (most of the time it's poor design). Recalls only happen when lives are lost (you don't hear about most of them) and that has to reach a certain number set by risk management before action is set into place. A=Number of vehicle affected, B=How many millions would the recall cost, C=How much we could possibly be sued for if we don't do anything. Sometimes being sued just makes more business sence if the cost calculations are lower than the recall.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 03-08-2002).]