I have an 85 GT 4 spd. When I turn the key to "start" position I hear the fuel pump energize and the starter cranks and cranks but the engine won't fire off. I can leave the key in "run" position, push the car, pop the clutch and it starts every time.

I have replaced the ignition switch, the ignition control module, the distributor cap, rotor, coil, spark plugs and wires. With NO LUCK. I'm completely out of ideas. Thanks for any suggestions??

The small wire coming off the starter is what supplies power while the car is cranking. Either the starter soleniod is bad or the wire coming off of it is broken. I also think it might have a fuse link in it which could be blown or bad.

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Happiness isn't around the corner...
Happiness IS the corner.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-19-2002).]

When it is cranking is the starter turning at normal speed or is it grinding slowly?

When you do get it running does it run well? Can you drive it normally once started?

The starter is cranking the engine at normal speed. It is not dragging or turning over slowly. Once the car is "push" started, the engine fires up and idles and runs smoothly.

I was thinking same thing as Orief. Id check the wiring between starter and battery, not just the main cable.

I know you said that you replaced the ignition switch, but I would still suggest you verify that you have +12V at the ignition coil when the key is in both START and RUN. Here's a link to the ignition schematic if you don't already have it.
http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/fiero08.pdf

Oreif,

Are you saying one of the small wires coming off the starter supplies power to the coil, distributor, etc. while in the "start" mode?

quote Originally posted by 85GTgreasmnky: Oreif, Are you saying one of the small wires coming off the starter supplies power to the coil, distributor, etc. while in the "start" mode?

Yes.

Mark,

Thanks for the diagram. The one in the Haynes manual is not real helpful. I checked the voltage to the coil and it reads 12V in both the "run" and "start" mode, so the coil is getting juice. I'm going to check the wiring at the starter like Oreif suggested. I've got to find something soon. I'm running out of wires/circuits to check!!

Greasemonkey,

Here's a link to the power distribution schematic.
http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/fiero01.pdf

Note that the fusible link at the starter solenoid feeds ONLY the cold start switch and the cold start injector. If that link were bad, the car should be difficult to start cold by either method (i.e., the starter motor or by catching it in gear).

A couple of other suggestions...

First of all, have you determined if you do or do not have good spark while cranking the starter? To do this, pull one spark plug wire, connect it to a spare spark plug that is grounded to the block, then look for a good "blue" spark while cranking. If you don't have a good spark (which I suspect), you've at least confirmed that the problem is ignition/electrical. However, if you DO have a good spark, you may be "barking up the wrong tree".

When you catch the car in gear, you are NOT drawing much current thru the battery cables and ground straps. However, when you use the starter, you ARE drawing high current. You may have a big voltage drop across a dirty connection only when cranking the starter. This voltage drop may be affecting your ignition only when cranking.

In any event, I would check and/or clean the battery cables, especially the chassis ground connection, and the ground straps. Then measure the voltage at the ignition coil to the base of the distributor (the ground that the ignition module "sees") while in run and while cranking.

Keep us posted!

[This message has been edited by Mark (edited 09-19-2002).]

Mark,

Is there a quick way to check the fusible link on the small wire connected at the starter short of cutting through the insulation on the other side of the fuse from the starter and checking for continuity?

If I am reading the Power Distribution diagram correctly it looks like the small wire (purple/white) connected to the solenoid connects to the cold start switch and cold start injector. If this is correct I can pull off/disconnect the terminals at both ends of the circuit to check continuity.

By the way...where is the cold start switch located? And what does it do? I do know where the cold start injector is located. (YEAH!)

I tell you what, this is getting deeper by the hour!! Ask if I'm having fun yet

85GTgreasmnky
Definately check the starter wires Orief indicated. That would be where I would start but I've had another problem on an 84 that give the indications you speak of. That was the wire going into the battery connection on the positive side. At a glance it looked good but I kept having problems of not being able to "crank start" it without some kind of help. Push off or squirt WD40 in the throttle body and it would start. This problem happened to me while visiting my brother one evening about dusk. Since there was no place to roll it off I got out the WD40 and removed the breather to give it a squirt. I had my brother crank the car over as I squirted in a little WD40 and the car fired off but I noticed a spark at the point where the little wire is crimped into the big wire on the positive battery post connection. I had my brother turn the car off. I cut the little wire end off and my brother got me a small hose clamp I used to clamp the little wire back onto the post connector. That patched the problem till I replaced the the post connector. Never would have seen the spark if it hadden almost been dark that evening.

I checked the wires at the starter and they looked fine. I cleaned off the terminals just in case. I followed Mark's tip on checking for spark at one of the plugs. I couldn't see or hear a thing. There was no blue spark or even a yellow one. Looks like there's no juice coming out of the distributor.

When I get off work I'll definitely check the positive wires/connections like Butter suggested.

Thanks everyone for all of the tips. Keep them coming.

Just a suggestion...

Try unplugging the colds start injector (you said you know where it is). If car starts now, the trouble is probably your cold start switch is stuck closed.

EDIT: Ooops! Just read the last post, which indicates you aren't getting spark. Nevermind !

[This message has been edited by StuGood (edited 09-20-2002).]

Greasemonkey,

Here's a link to the cold start injector schematic..... http://www.euronet.nl/users/fo_elmo/fiero09.pdf

You will notice that the fusible link supplies power to the purple/white wires at the cold start switch and the cold start injector. The cold start switch is a time/temperature switch that ultimately turns on the cold start injector (via grounding the tan wire). The cold start switch is physically located near the thermostat housing (just in front of it and slightly to the left (air cleaner) side.

To check continuity, all you really need to do is measure voltage from the purple/white wire to ground. Use a test light with a sharp tip made specifically for piercing thru the insulation.

You said you had no(or you couldn't see) spark while cranking. Also, you said the cranking speed is normal. You could eliminate the cold start insector and switch by just trying to restart (by cranking) when the engine is already warm (catch it in gear to start, then warm it up). If the car won't start by cranking even when it is warm, then the cold start injector/switch is probably OK.

Here's another little test you can run to be sure your getting good info from the "spare sparkplug test". Basically, set up the test with the spare spark plug then start the engine by catching it in gear (I'm hoping it will start that way on 5 cylinders!). After its started, then check again for spark at the spare spark plug. If you see a good blue spark (you should!), shut it down, then immediately try to restart using the starter while watching for spark during cranking. If you have no spark during cranking, then you've proven beyond any doubt that the problem is ignition related, and the problem only occurs while you crank.

Have you checked all of your grounds, particularly the battery cable to the block and also the copper braid from the block to the passanger-side decklid hinge? You should.

If you are STILL having problems, I would swap the old ignition control module back in (You did save it, right?) and give that a try. There can't be too many other things wrong, assuming you have 12V at the coil when cranking.

Keep checking.... Aren't electrical problems a blast?

The wires/connections from the "+" and "-" battery are clean and tight as are the ground connection and chasis ground strap.

I don't know alot about the pickup coil. Could that be the problem? I'm getting +12V from the coil to the base of the distributor but nothing out from the cap?

Friday night and no place to go! What a bummer. Just me and the GT. And she's passed out on me.

I chased a problem like this before for months.
Exact same symptoms but not a fiero.
It turned out to be the distributor pick-up coil.(reluctor...whatever)
If all else fails you might try that.

tstroud

If you have 12V at the coil, the "only" other parts involved in making spark are the pickup coil, ignition module, and the ignition coil (plus rotor, dist cap, wires and plugs).

This is getting stranger. Will the engine reliably start (using the starter) when its warm, but not when its cold? Will the engine always start by push starting, even when stone cold? It could be a temp issue with the pickup coil.

Yet another test.... Remove the pickup coil and measure its resistance. Place it in the freezer for 10 minutes or so and again measure the resistance. Finally, warm it up with a hair dryer (you can get it pretty warm without hurting it) and measure the resistance. If any check shows a very high resistance, you found the problem.

Mark and all of the rest,

Thanks for all of the tips/help. I finally found the problem. Went to look at pickup coil. Although the resistant measured good, it looked in bad shape. As I was removing the distributor shaft assembly I noticed the reluctor had several cracks and broken pieces out of the magnet. I went ahead a replaced the whole distibutor. My GT fires right up but I noticed the timing mark is coming up at about 2-4 deg AFTER TDC. I rechecked the distributor and it is set correctly to TDC.

I have another post asking about symptoms of the timimg chain skipping a couple of gears.

I wanted to say thanks to all of you who gave suggestions and help in regards to this post. I really appreciated all of the tips.