I am purchasing a SC for a 91-95 series 1 3800, however i saw this info and got to wondering...
1994 to 1995 Supercharged - 225 HP. Vin Code - 1
1996 to Current Supercharged - 250 HP. Vin Code - 1
What is the major difference in the motors (or SC'ers) that grabs the newer ones 25 hp? And if it is just the motor itself, is the SC i am buying capable of being installed on the series 2 motor?
Sorry, im new to the 3800 scene, as this will be my first v6 conversion.
------------------ Monkey "No matter where I go...There's my car"
series II all the way around is better. I know you want to know specific but, I can tell you the s/c are not the same and series II is a much better designed, longer lasting, with the ability to change to a smaller pully to spin it up faster.
I still would not turn down a series 1 s/c vin 1 mtr
but, series II is big time improved.
IMO is like comparing a caddy 4.5 to a 4.9.
Pete
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10:44 AM
Nov 23rd, 2002
SuperBuick Member
Posts: 12 From: Wellesley, MA, USA Registered: Jul 2002
That is not necesarily true, I have been told be numerous Buick techs that the series 1, at least n/a tuned, is a better motor. I have no reason why, but that is what I have been told. I will try and ask someone who I know who could explain it to you better. - Tom
The primary cosmic diffences is the M90 blower and the better heads (which are basically recasted S1 heads that have been ported and the injector bosses added). Yes, I've over simplified it so don't bother....The S1 cross-bolted mains are nice bragging rights but unless you go nuts, you don't need them. BLowing out S1 cranks is not a problem.
S1's are beefy engines. The S2, because of the larger blower (1.5L vs 1.0L) can generate more boost but the S1, when tuned right, is nothing to sneeze at. I beat GTP's with my tuned S1 in the my 86 Ciera GT all of the time.
Certainly, if you can find an S2 at a fair price get it, but don't dismiss the S1.
92/93 S1 -205HP/275 ft-lbs M62 Eaton with 57mm TB 94/95 S1 -225HP/275 ft-lbs M62 Eaton with Teflon coated rotors and 70mm TB. 96+S2 - 240HP/280ft-lbs M90 Eaton
S1 with 94/95 M62/70mm TB and 92 pulley is about 250HP and 300 ft-lbs. More with some chip tuning.
[This message has been edited by TK (edited 11-23-2002).]
I am purchasing a SC for a 91-95 series 1 3800, however i saw this info and got to wondering...
1994 to 1995 Supercharged - 225 HP. Vin Code - 1
1996 to Current Supercharged - 250 HP. Vin Code - 1
What is the major difference in the motors (or SC'ers) that grabs the newer ones 25 hp? And if it is just the motor itself, is the SC i am buying capable of being installed on the series 2 motor?
Sorry, im new to the 3800 scene, as this will be my first v6 conversion.
Keep us posted on the SC install. Check this web site: http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_htm/faq.shtm#16 They have alot of details on WHY NOT to do this conversion. I have a 3800 NA in my 1886SE. It has been installed for four years with no problems. Ok a couple battery dies after a week of not running, believe to be caused by the oil pressure switch start up circuit, still have not figured that out. lol One transmission leak-loose bolt on transmission housing. It is a good runner I have a CD of the swap with some wiring changes required. PM if you want a CD of the swap 2.8 fiero to 3800 NA
5th Gen Eaton Series 3 3800 Engine 255HP/280 Ft-Lbs 17" Wheels Tap Shift (Touch Activated Power) Still looks like a 4T65E. StabiliTrak Rear doors open to 82 degrees now. Trunk opening 10" wider Different (Dual Outlet) Exhaust tips. Stealth Mode Hud (all dash lights go off). New Instrument Panel (3D) New Dash (More contoured) Production starts 2/03 First Shipments 3/03
The higher HP engines are in the vapor-cars. If they will ever gt produced remains to be seen. GXP?
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03:04 PM
GTDude Member
Posts: 9056 From: Keysville, Virginia, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Personally I feel better about the series I engine. It's got lots of HP and torque. 25HP is not much for the diff in the money you have to pay for a series II engine.
My swap will definitely be with a series I 3800SC engine.
Phil
------------------ GTDude OVER 25 years GM experience
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08:48 PM
fieroX Member
Posts: 5234 From: wichita, Ks Registered: Oct 2001
The potential in the series II is the aftermarket. The initial power gain isnt much, but when it comes to finding mods, series II has it hands down. Mine is making 400 hp, and 475 ft lbs of torque now. Not bad for a little ol V6
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08:59 PM
Smoooooth GT Member
Posts: 8823 From: Lake Palestine, Texas Registered: Jun 2001
The potential in the series II is the aftermarket. The initial power gain isnt much, but when it comes to finding mods, series II has it hands down. Mine is making 400 hp, and 475 ft lbs of torque now. Not bad for a little ol V6
So, In other word's... You CAN'T change pulleys, add super-cooler's, etc. like you can on the series 2??? Is there no aftermarket for the series 1?? ------------------
SmoothFieroGT@Yahoo.com Have you RATED me today??
[This message has been edited by Smoooooth GT (edited 11-23-2002).]
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09:09 PM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
Holy F'ing S*** Fierox. I would REALLY like to know what you have done to your SeriesII V6 to get 400hp! thats nuts! And how much modification is needed to get a SeriesII into an 87GT 5-speed?
BTW GTDude, how do you like the 4:10 4-speed. i was thinking of changing from Getrag to one, and was wondering what you thought
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09:41 PM
PFF
System Bot
Nov 24th, 2002
Darth Fiero Member
Posts: 5921 From: Waterloo, Indiana Registered: Oct 2002
There are more differences between the series 1 and series 2 engines besides just the blowers...
-The series II engine has about a 1" shorter deck height than the series I engine... This has a couple of advantages: the series II is lighter, more compact width and height wise, and the bottom end is stronger because of the cross-bolted main caps. Downside? yea, this makes the rod-to-stroke ratio worse than the series I engine. Plus-side? Less reciprocating mass = better efficientcy.
The cylinder heads between the two engines are not interchangeble. Neither are the camshafts because of the difference in valve arrangement.
There is very little aftermarket for the series I engines. The heads don't flow as good in stock vs. stock form compared to the series II engines and there are no roller rocker arms offered for the series I engines either.
In any event, don't waste your money on a series I SC engine unless you can get it for a really good deal or you don't care about not having aftermarket upgrades available. It is also my opinion that the series I SC engine is not as durable as its series II cousin.
------------------ 1987 Pontiac Fiero Coupe #18,838 3800 Series II SFI; 4T60-E Trans w/ 3.33 final drive; Terminator exhaust; 4 wheel vented disc conversion; Walbro 307 fuel pump; W-body air box w/ K&N filter; Rear 32mm sway bar; 134a functioning A/C; GM CD player w/ factory location sub; much more and...a stock GN's TURBO on the way!
So, In other word's... You CAN'T change pulleys, add super-cooler's, etc. like you can on the series 2??? Is there no aftermarket for the series 1??
Darth pretty much covered it. I believe there is a pulley upgrade, and you can have your cam reground, and you can do port work to the heads and such, but other than that stuff like headers, supercoolers/intercoolers, etc will all have to be one off custom made pieces. That will cost you more than the series II in the first place.
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03:37 AM
FieroMonkey Member
Posts: 3294 From: poway,CA,USA Registered: Nov 2002
So, what is wrong with the Series I SC. I was looking forward to driving mine once installed. Not sure now. I got such a good deal on it. It would be hard to find a II for the price I paid.
------------------ 86 Fiero SE
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01:12 AM
88LeSabre Member
Posts: 128 From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada Registered: Jun 2002
The series I blows. Period. Why can I talk trash?? BECAUSE I DRIVE ONE EVERY DAY!!!
To be a little more serious, there is NOTHING available for the series I in the aftermarket world. The introduction of the series II in a sports car (GTP) is what made the newer design gain so much attention to performance part manufacturers. Let's see, series I, maybe computer, smaller pulley, and series II, multiple computers, headers, cams, ported heads, ported blowers, ported intakes, intercoolers, nitrous bolt on kits, larger throttle bodies, many interchangable pullies, you basically can build up the entire motor, just ask fiero X.
My series I is O.K. it runs great. I just wish it was a lot faster. I was extremely disappointed by the power. If I could do it all over again, I would definately buy a series II and buy some speed parts for it right away.
Good Luck,
MOBILE
------------------ Member MN Fieros Forever 1986 GT. Self Installed SC3800/getrag almost everything performance wise is modified/upgraded, inside and out. Over 10 years in Car Audio and Car Electronics Experiance P.S. GOT 19"s??(all the way around)
