I got a new A Delco ignition module from the Chevy house the other day ($70.00).

Other than saying Singapore on the bottom... here is the major difference I see:

It had a vial of silicon grease included.

So my questions are: I guess it's okay to use silicon grease on the bottom of ignition modules? Why does every other aftermarket module include a vial of white di-electric grease instead of silicon? Is one better than the other?

Also, is there just 1 or 2 manufacturers of ignition modules out there and everybody just rebadges the part? i.e. is a $56 Borg-Warner the same dang module as the $36 Wells as the $68 Accel?

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REMEMBER: stoplights synch'd for 35mph are also synch'd for 70mph.
(and for 140mph, now that I think about it.)

I think the purpose of the grease is just to help conduct heat away from the piece? In this case, I don't see where it would really make that big a difference, except maybe in the longevity of the product.

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19 Year Old Fierophile.
R.I.P.--1986 GT Daily Driver, 4:10s, NX 50 Shot, Borla exhaust, ported manifolds, more goodies
--1986 SE V6, Mostly stock W/Integrated rockers and COMING SOON: Intercooled Turbo!!! (possibly)
--1984 SE 4.9, IMSA spoiler, Duel exhuast, GT rear bumper, Konis, drop spindles, Rear adjustable perch, Poly total kit, Poly cradle bushings, Big front bar, Added rear bar, 11.25" brakes on all corners w/SS hoses, Fancy wheels wrapped w/soft rubber, and much much more.

The "grease" that is included with a new module is really heat sink compound. It helps transfer the heat from the module to the distributor.
As far as brands of modules I wouldn't be surprised if there are only one or two manufacturers out there. Some people swear by AC Delco. I have had a NAPA brand module in my car for over 5 years with no problems. I carry an Autozone life time warranty Wells brand as my back up.

Pat

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84SE w/ T-Tops

Ive been told several times only Wells makes them. There resold from Delco, Autozone, NAPA, and whoever else has them. That came from several parts managers Ive talked too. Of course Dealer isnt going to tell you his for $70 is the same identical one from Autozone for $25. And the dealer wont give you free ones for rest of your life like Autozone does.

The white grease is called heat sink compound. It is better than standard dielectric (silicone) that the GM/AC unit apparently comes with.

To quote Thermaloy, one of the people who make that stuff..... heat sink compound is 4x better than dielectric and 20x better than nothing.

The white heatsink compound is extremely common in the computer world. There are other products but the white is most common.

The problem of module life is two fold, at least as far as heat... The ignition module lives in the already hot engine bay and absorbs heat from it. The rub is that the module also generates heat it has to unload.

Most electronics want to live with internal temperatures below 150-180F. If you push them much over that they may work, but probably not as long as they should. So if the engine bay has everything heated to 150-180 already, then the module has to run hotter yet.

I have always preferred the white thermal compound, too.
That's what most folks use on their computer CPU coolers.
When I was working on radio transmitters, it's also what we used when we mounted high power (300+ watt), metal transmitter tubes.

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Raydar

88 3.4 coupe. A work in progress.

Out of my mind. Back in 30 minutes.

quote Originally posted by theogre: To quote Thermaloy, one of the people who make that stuff..... heat sink compound is 4x better than dielectric and 20x better than nothing.

Interesting... Guess I'm off to buy some of the white today!

Thanks for the replies. It's not often that I have 3 'heavy hitters' from 1999 reply in one of my threads. :feels giddy:

i always use the GP sorenson modual, they are only like 18 bucks US i get some computer heatsink compound and use on them. works fine, so far my fiero has had it for 18 months with no problems.

matthew

My experience with AutoZone's lifteime warranty is that it is a gaurantee that you will be replacing the item with a new free one every year or so.

I had one last almost 4 years. For $25 for one time, Ill spare 5 mins a year to change them if need be

As for the difference between AC- Delco and brand X ignition modules, I believe that it is more than just the thermal grease. The grease will undoubtedy work in aiding thermal transfer but IMO the poorest quality module with the best grease won't make a reliable ignition.
Automotive manufacturers work to a quality control specs far superior than the aftermarket parts suppliers do. OEM auto specs are very similar to military specifications and the Delco modules seem to last a very long time. We see reports on the Forum of aftermarket modules lasting only a few months so there must be a sharp difference. I prefer to do the job once.

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87GT 3.4 Turbo Best 0-60 5.2 seconds
http://turbofiero.fierojoe.com/turbo.htm

I';ve been using Delco and NAPA modules for many years. Both the clear silicone and the white grease. I don'[t know what the diff is, but I know that there is a diff. My experiences alone tell me that. I've seen people try autozone and advance and all the el cheapo brands and I've also driven by while they were on the side of the road broken down........waiting to go to the store to get another one under that lifetime warranty........LOL. Use the best and most likely you won't have to worry about a lifetime warranty.

Phil

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ive been told several times only Wells makes them. There resold from Delco, Autozone, NAPA, and whoever else has them. That came from several parts managers Ive talked too. Of course Dealer isnt going to tell you his for $70 is the same identical one from Autozone for $25. And the dealer wont give you free ones for rest of your life like Autozone does.

Roger, I was told the exact same thing by Carquest. This only confirms what I've heard. I would never spend the money for a "GM" part, if I new I got the exact same thing for less from a parts house.

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hoop
Red
'86 GT
5 speed
Borla Exhaust
Eibach's/Poly/Kyb's
*** 3.4 TDC swap under construction***

I just got back from Murray's Auto Parts where I replaced my "WELLS" module ($35.00)....Yeah, they offer a lifetime warrantee BUT that's the second one I've had in two years. I always keep a fresh spare one in the trunk and when one goes bad, I put in the new one and make them give me a replacement for the bad one...

They don't carry AC/Delco modules. Since I've got a "WELLS" pickup coil installed ($10.99), I keep an extra of that as well. Murray's prices are excellent and they usually have everything I want in stock but Wells' quality leaves a bit to be desired.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-25-2003).]

I've tried to stay out of part quality issues.... It's always a mine field.

I'm not at all amused with Wells. So much for their ISO 900x quality.... Most parts I have trouble with come from them. The Wells EGR valve I used last had the big return sping actually break. That said, there are good parts and bad. The only aftermarket source I trust for most things electronic is Borg Warner (BWD) brand.

GM/AC parts are made to spec by Delphi and others. Car maker spec is tough. The same plant may make parts for GM and the aftermarket but the spec those parts are made to isn't always the same.

Lets say that to pass QC for GM the part maker has to use a 50 cent transistor. For the aftermarket they may use a 5 cent one in the same spot. They may look the same but that 5 cent part isn't going to hold up under the same conditions as the better one.

As I pointed out above... Thermal issues are a major factor in life of electronic parts. In a setting like Fiero, where heat is already extreme, cheap parts aren't going to last.

A cheap pickup... A pickup is mainly a coil of wire... any decent wire will work here.

A cheap module... Now you've got components that generate their own heat that has to be dumped. We're back to the 50 cent transistor vs. the 5 cent one.

The transistor that fires the coil has to dump allot of heat. Lets say the engine bay has heated the transistor to 140F. The 50c transistor has a max temperature of 180-200F. The 5c one has a max temp of 150F. Which one is more likely to survive when the current of firing the coil starts heating it?

Yes, several makers/vendors offer life time warranty. At the same time... people have to use that warranty rather often. Do you really want to risk having the car die in the middle of the freeway? The warranty doesn't mean a thing to me if I'm about to get run over by a semi because the car died in the center lane of I95....

If you think it is bad with HEI... Try DIS... These issues are even more important whan the module is mounted to the side of the 200F engine block.

Ogre is right. I worked the aftermarket parts scene as well as dealerships for hte last 20 years. I can attest to the fact that though the same manufacturer may make hte part for GM and Carquest, quality is much different. Some parts it really doesn't matter. But all in all I would have to say buy a genuine OEM product if you want to have less problems. I used to swear by the aftermarket thinking nothing was different, but after being involved on the dealership side and seeing some of the cars that came in with problems attributed to crappy aftermarket parts I changed my thinking very quickly. Of course I don't think that all aftermarket stuff is crap, just be selective on what you use. If it is a critical part that you rely on functioning properly, use OEM!

Spark plugs are another one of those items I would definately pay very close attention to. AC Delco is the only plug I would stick with in a GM vehicle. I have seen WAY too many failures of Autolites, Splitfire(just a marketing gimmick anyways), as well as many others. I do think that Autolites work well in Fords though, as ND and NGK works well in Hondas and Toyotas. I guess the moral of the story is just stick with what came in your car if you want to drive trouble free down the freeway, but if you decide to be the one to change a starter in the middle of I5 in the middle of the night with the rain pelting you sideways - I guess go ahead and buy that Carquest/NAPA/Autozone starter!

As for me, I will stick with what works. Of course this is just my opinion based on many years of experience.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by theogre:
So much for their ISO 900x quality
[QUOTE]

This is completely unrelated to ignition modules but all ISO certification does is put all the processes of the manufacturer into writing with flow charts and so on. It guarantees that the ability to produce a quality part(or service even)is there. Thats why wells may not hold up as well as ISO thinks they should

Grid... my point is that Wells, like allot of other companies, touts their ISO cert as meaning they turn out top grade parts. In Wells case, and many others, they turn out allot of quality crap.

I've worked for ISO cert companies... From what I've seen it's nothing more than a way for ISO to make a fortune.

for sources...
www.partsamerica.com caries allot of ACdelco stuff. You can order by AC/GM number even if it's not normally listed for you car. They often have stuff online the stores can't get.

I use allot of Borg Warner(BWD) and Bosch. Never had any problem with them.

Bosch is usually creditied with inventing the O2 sensor. They are the only O2 sensor I'll use besides an OE one.

BWD pays allot more attention to detail. They were the only ones that had the right style MAT for my 87 L4. They even include the coolant temperture pigtail with the new style sensor. If you have to buy that separately, it's 5-15$.

The big problem in the aftermarket is people shopping only by price. This makes a big disincentive for people making quality parts. Obviously, Quality parts cost more to make but if you can't move enough of them to break even then it's hardly worth your effort.

quote Originally posted by 87fastback: Spark plugs are another one of those items I would definately pay very close attention to. AC Delco is the only plug I would stick with in a GM vehicle. I have seen WAY too many failures of Autolites, Splitfire(just a marketing gimmick anyways), as well as many others. I do think that Autolites work well in Fords though, as ND and NGK works well in Hondas and Toyotas. I guess the moral of the story is just stick with what came in your car if you want to drive trouble free down the freeway, but if you decide to be the one to change a starter in the middle of I5 in the middle of the night with the rain pelting you sideways - I guess go ahead and buy that Carquest/NAPA/Autozone starter! As for me, I will stick with what works. Of course this is just my opinion based on many years of experience.

When i get any 'new' car first things i do are change oil, install Bosch Platinum plugs. They worked in my limo service cars for over 100,000 every time. there in my Lumina, the vette, both Fieros. Ive never had the slightest problem. They all start instantly even in sub zero, never a miss.

Ogre, thats what I was trying to say I did a really poor job of writing that post. I totally agree with you. I meant to say that they have the ability to make a good part but ISO does nothing to make sure they will actually make a quality part.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: When i get any 'new' car first things i do are change oil, install Bosch Platinum plugs. They worked in my limo service cars for over 100,000 every time. there in my Lumina, the vette, both Fieros. Ive never had the slightest problem. They all start instantly even in sub zero, never a miss.

Bosch Platinum plugs are great plugs. I have used them many times without any problems. As far as oil, that is a completely different subject for a different thread. I really feel that it is a simple matter of choice. I have heard all the rants about chemical properties of different oils, but honestly I am probably the worst to ask about oil since I go like 15k before changing it most of the time! Not good to do and I do not suggest it, but I am just lazy that way.

There are alot of good aftermarket products out there, and after rereading my post I realize a may have been a little harsh. There are some very good products on hte aftermarket, just be careful in choosing. For example, clutch and slave cylinders - I would use nothing but genuine GM parts, PERIOD!! It seems that some MAF, MAP nd other sensors I have used from aftermarket sources were ok, but I have used quite a few oil senders that turned out to be junk and ended up going to OE.

Quick follow up on my quest to find the white di-electric heat sink compound:
NAPA, Oreilly, and Autozone only carry the clear silicon grease. At my local fiero club (NTFC) meet on Sat, PFF'er ttopfiero suggested Radio Shack -of all places- for the white stuff.

Sure enough, they had a tube of it for $1.95. Ya'll file this tidbit the next time you start hunting for the white over the clear.

Radish Rack has the little tubes. They are great in a bind but not if you do any amouny of regular work. The tube they sell is some small fraction of an ounce. It's enough for one, maybe two, HEI module installs.

Try almost any regular electronics suppier for larger volumes. I used to buy the stuff in one pound tubs when I was doing allot of computer building.

Many online electronics shops also have it. Just as a quickie... www.jdr.com has:
MG-860-150G 5 oz Heat Sink Compound $12.99
JDR tends to be a little on the high price side but that's still allot cheaper than radish rack.

The clear will work in a pinch but I use the white whenever posible.