Here's the deal folks.. ill be driving around in 1st or second or even sometimes third, pretty much any gear as long as im doing about 3000-4000 rpms, and i accelerate the car bucks and wants to stall like no other. Now on my 86 gt, i have a recipt from a repair where the prvious owner told the repair shop that the car would buck and stall under acceleration..... could this be the same problem? My gt has had troubles with emissions, has a different exhaust note, and has less power and a ruff idle, could these symptoms all be attributed to this "clogged converter"? what are other possibilities for problems with the car? When the car wants to stall and when it bucks under acceleration the service engine soon light comes on. That makes it seem to me like it might be electrical, or does the ecm pick up the fact that there is too much backpressure. Aso i couldnt tell that well but it sounded like there was misfiring, or backfiring too.

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If the SES light comes on you'll need to check for error codes. Refer to main page on ECM trouble shooting.

It could be a clogged cat. clogged fuel filter or a car in desperate need of a tune up

Here is the latest, and i still need lots of help.. I was out driving it around today after i put a different coil on from our other gt, and it had no improvment. I checked the ecm trouble codes, it says nothing is wrong. Then i took it out for a spin to see if the ecm would realize there was a problem again, and it stalled on me. Up untill that drive, everything was working fine except for the stumbling on acceleration. Half way through the last drive the tack started going all over the place, but there was no change in engine rpms (WHAT?!?!? ) so i decided it would be best i get home. Then at a stop sign about a block from my place the thing died, and it wouldnt start, still doesnt start in fact. I rolled it down the hill into my driveway and there it sits, while it has everyone stumped. Its raining, otherwise by this time i would have like evrything swapped on the two cars Please help!! *bump*

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[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 04-17-2003).]

I had a similar problem on an 85 SE V6 that I used to own. Turned out the catalytic converter was clogged. The car would spit and stumble if I tried to get it above roughly 2000 RPM.

I would check the fuel filter first, then have a look at the cat.

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Brad
86 GT 5 speed
Aren't all Fieros project cars?

The tach jumping around is a sign of a bad tach filter. If this part goes back it will short the coil directly to ground. It can also kill your coil. Try unplugging it and see if the car will run. Try swapping out the ignition module also, just as a precaution. The tach filter looks like this.

OK, GOOD news! First of all thanks alot for the suggestions. Actually what happened was i must have broke a tab off of one of the connectors for the coil (the one for the tach ) and that would explain the tach going nuts, it also made the car not able to start. Took care of that temporarily with a little bit of duct tape (more uses everyday, right??). However that doesnt solvethe accelerating problems. Ive got a "Spare parts" car (its really just another gt that has a blown tranny) and im going to swap the exhaust tomorrow, and if it runs fine, then we all know what the problem was! Ill get back to you guys. Anyone with more suggestions??-i
STILL would appreciate it!

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My GT once "performed" the same as you've described. Try tapping on the catalytic converter with a rubber mallet. If it sounds like a bunch of nuts and bolts are rattling around inside, it's time for a new one!

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well i have got more questions for ya all that have had the cat go bad. What was the engine like when you revved it up? With the car in neutral i can rev it up like no tomorrow and it'll stay at any rpm for however long yu want, its just when its in gear accelerating. I had a mechanic that i work with take it for a drive he said that it shouldnt be the cat if you can rev it. Im not sure exactly what to think anymore.. i could spend years guessing. If its not the cat what could it be? Also the mechanic had it hooked up to the scantool while he was driving it and there were no codes that poped up even though the SES light was flashing on and off when it was bucking. He suggested that the ECM might be bad. I have a spare one in the blown tranny 86 gt that i could swap in, but whats the procedure for doing this, am i wasting my time? Someone mentioned the ignition modual, where is that located? What would be the symptoms of that going out? Thanks ahead of time!

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quote Originally posted by fieromadman: *bump* still need help! whats the ignition controll modual?

The ignition module is a solid state module inside the distributor. It's under the cap and rotor, and had 2 plugs on it. It's prone to failure (especially non-AC Delco ones), and is quite easy to replace. I highly recommend keeping a spare and enough tools to change one in the car at all times.

quote What was the engine like when you revved it up? With the car in neutral i can rev it up like no tomorrow and it'll stay at any rpm for however long yu want, its just when its in gear accelerating

When my cat was bad, it wouldn't rev well no matter if it was in neutral or not. Sounds like you have some other problem. Formula88 is right, check the ignition module. It's a quick repair, but the module can be just a little bit pricey. Also as Formula88 said, it does pay to keep a spare & tools in the car. Yes, I'm speaking from experience .

Sometimes my car(87 GT) bucks but only when its at real low RPMs allmost like it doesnt have enough gas. A quick push in of the clutch and release solves this problem.

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See a work in progress at the Team Synergy Official Webpage.

looks like ill be swapping this part from my other gt to this one! Thanks for the help i hope that this is the problem!?! Could it be a bad ECM because the SES light comes on but there is no code!

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In da same boat with ya here!! After all I've done it still bucks and surges, might I add I also dont get any codes. Ok so heres what I've replaced so far! battery, all new cables to mount up front, fan relay, temp switch, oil switch, TPS, IAC, plugs, thermostat, cap & rotor, Ign mod cleaned inside of dist, Air filter, fuel pump is less then a year old with only monthly 30 min warmups to keep engine fresh.(only 30,000 on her) Checked and cleaned pretty much all the wires and connectors, ran more grounds to block, none of these did much for improvement. still stutters the same! only things left are put a cat on (mines punched out), O2 sensor, map/mat sensors and humm is there anything else? The cars really starting to get on my nerves and my back on the road deadline is advancing quickly ( I hate driving it illegaly but I have to )

Could this have anything to do with my AC not working, what about that OD thing for manual trasmisions? I wouldnt think so since autos are doing it also. I'm stumped also and about out of money. Please anyone please help us!! Thanks

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Who ever said working on Fieros wasn't any fun?? They must not of had a rebody!

[This message has been edited by DjDraggin (edited 04-23-2003).]

Well sounds like we've got the same problem.. hmm. I checked th haynes manual and it says
1. spark plugs fouled
2. Fuel injection system needs adjustment or repair
3. Fuel filter clogged
4. Incorrect ingnition timing
5 Intake manifold air leak

No just for the guy that has the sam problem as me, does your car by chance have a rolling idle too? Im thinking that I am going to replace the fuel filter or have it replaced. Anyone got a procedure for this? I just had the timing set aobut 200 miles ago, i doubt that it is that. I havent checked the plugs, but i doubt that it is that. The intke manifold air leak may be a possibility, any ideas on how to check that? What could i need for the fuel system besides the filter? A mechanic friend of mine drove the car a suggested that i swap the ECM, anyone got an opinion? This is pissing me off, i want to get the paint wet sanded and buffed the rest of the way but this is taking up all of my free time! Thanks for any help.

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my ignition should be fine so it has to be something else.. I'm going to buy some vacuum hose today and just run it in place of the plastic stuff and see if that does the trick (doubt it but worth a try) fuel filter is easy. its right up under the middle of the car just be careful of spraying fuel. getting to the pump is a bit harder but I've done it so many times alreay I'm getting to be a pro at it.
Whats really odd is the thing I think it might be youve already proved they didnt help and the things you think it might be didnt help me.. what in the world are we missing?

Have you replaced the fuel filter? in the book its recommended that you release the fuel pressure before replacing it, oh well

Let me know on the vaccum hoses. Have you tried the ECM, i think i might swap them tomorrow, but i really doubt that is the problem. Any other fuel possibilities, i know that the pump is good in the car it was replaced not too long ago and it runs strong. This one has got me and my dad baffeled! good luck!

If you have the radio on, when it surges do you hear noise over the radio? Im really thinking that its electrical because everytime i have the radio on and it does it that is some interferance to some degree. Hows your timing? i had mine set not too long ago but it might have slipped, doubt it though.

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[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 04-25-2003).]

something i thought about tonight I dont think weve replaced.. the pickup coil, and its cheap. Its gotta be electrical If it was fuel related wouldnt it do it at any RPM? and the way the tach ticks backwards about 8 notches everytime throws me off.

I dont have access to any ECMs, odd thing is I dont recall it doing it for a whole day then after they E-Tested it It started doing it about an hour later. I dont recall takin the car up to 60mph before they did though.

My timing is still way off. I've not had anyone use an actual gun on the car yet, just loaded the engine and adjusted the distrubter.
I was able to check my EGR by reving the engine with the throtle wheel and could feel the EGR pull up so there is plenty of vacuum there. not sure about the other tubes though.
HELP!!!!!!

Fuel problems can show up at certain speed or load conditions. But in general, you can't get the engine above that rpm because there simply isn't the fuel to run it faster. It will run lean, backfire, act very unhappy. If you've ever run out of gas, like I did yesterday, it is a similar situation. I am amazed how long the Fiero limped along before it finally gave up. Every other car I have had died within a few hundred yards, not 5-10 miles!

With no codes, you guys are seeing an intermittent problem. The ECM will usually only log codes if a condition persists. And each sensor problem may have a different time factor. Some are 8 seconds, some 45, etc.

Since the mixture is not right at that rpm/load, I would also suspect the O2 sensor or MAP system. If either of them are slow to respond, this intermittent mixture problem might be the result. O2 sensors are only about $25, and easy to change. MAPS are about $40. O2 sensors have shorter lives, so I'd try that first. Before buying ANYTHING, make sure the MAP vacuum lines and passages are not clogged, or leaking. Either problem will give the ECM bad data, and the wrong fuel mixture.

These engines run fine without cats, but if a converter breaks up and essentially plugs up, the engine will probably run at low rpms, but won't rev or have any power. I just put on 2 new cats for my California cars. About $200 each. My Fiero had none, and my Celica 340K on it. According to the poster in the shop, they should 'never' wear out. Most cars don't last 340K, so I guess that is close to what they mean by 'never'.

Good luck, guys. These are difficult, annoying problems to solve. Work together, and you'll find it!!

[This message has been edited by ScottF (edited 04-25-2003).]

I'm ordering new AC-Delco Ign mod and pickup coil today other stuff was Wells and the Ign mod is brand new but my MSD coil might of well Blasted it. Its got some KICK I pulled a spark plug wire not thinking cause I'm getting mad at the car and ZAPPPPP my nipple length hair stood upright for a min!! car is running fine even with 2 spark plug wire unhooked. I'm going to try this stuff install the cat on monday and then its on to change out the fuel pump and filter.. I'll let you know the verdic on monday. best of luck

The ignition modual wasnt it for me, if what your trying doesnt fix it im going to swap ecms, and if that doesnt do it im going to take the thing in. i cant have it acting like that when its my daily driver. its dangerous to pull out in normal sized gaps inbetween cars! Let me know on that pickup coil thingy, it sounds promising!
When my SES light comes on its really intermitent. MY tach does the same thing too, when the engine acts up it bounces everywhere. I was going to trace where the wires for the coil go (not the one for the tch filter or whatever its called but for the power) and see if there is any loose connections or anything that would make getting optimum power out of it difficult. Right now the SES light is like s shift light when it comes on you gotta shift or it will just keep bucking and slowing down, its almost likt the engine is shut off when it happens I suppose you dont observe the same exact thing with auto, but i think you get the idea

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[This message has been edited by fieromadman (edited 04-25-2003).]

I have had the same problem as you have been having, I put a new pick-up on the distributor, and got rid of the problem. I have owned 7 Fieros now all of them I did my own work, and this is what I found. There comes a point in time when these go bad, and you will replace many sensors, wires, and do all sorts of checks, and nothing works. This will most always give you a bad reading for the emissions.

You are a LIFE SAVER! Its so odd because today when i was on the highway all alone i top it out in 4th gear for a considerable ammount of time and it had no problems, so i knew it wasnt fuel. Welcome to the forum BTW. If you could tell me where the pick-up is in the car that would be great (i assume it is in the distributor)! Thanks for reading this!

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I was thinking on the way to work this morning that someone mentioned that mid-range problems are often EGR system related. And now you've eliminated the fuel system--at least any hard failure. A pick-up coil is only $15--it's the little coil near the top of the distributor that plugs into the ignition module. You have to pull the distributor and disassemble it to replace it, but it's not that hard. Just make SURE you put it back in the same way it came out, and re-check initial timing when you're done.

You should be able to temporarily plug the EGR line to see if it is EGR related, if the p/u coil isn't the problem.

i havent had the time yet to replace the pick-up coil, but it makes complete sense. If i am not mistaken the pickup coil is used to creat extra current during fast revs to help the engines pick-up... am i right? If so were on the right track and even the right part possibly. It makes sense.. since the car only bucks in fast reving acceleration. Thanks for the imput for those of you who replied. Looks like ill have my baby back again

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http://www.fierofocus.com/articles/tt-pickupcoil.html

Thats a great place for good instructions on how to do it. My pick-up coil was like 15 dollars. Havent installed it yet, but its going in tonight. Ill be sure to let you know how it goes! Good luck. Whats the status on your repairs DJ, any luck?

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If you dont need to do it.. DONT.. It didnt fix anything but lengthen the life of my Dis. I rebuilt mine today with all AC-delco parts and cleaned it really well.. the old coil was thrashed and coming apart. But I went for a test run about 5 miles from here (got food) Ran great there.. Kissed her many times in praise.. then on the way back It started right back up doing its old Shiot!!! Not as bad but it was doing it around 3,000rpms.

I'm Going to change the damn feul pump and filter tonight (thank god for 24 hour auto stores!!) Other then that all Ive not replaced it hoses, egr(works though), O2 sensor, and checked my map/mat and the TPS. everything else on the car is new! I'm reallllly wishing I would of just bought a 3800 or something diff then the ol crappy stocker!!!

No, i havent done the pick-up coil. You didnt do the pick-up coil, or did you? im still going to do it with my fingers crossed. Just be glad that your not doing all this $#!T on a BMW where parts are REALLY expensive (i wonder whos had enough with a BMW lately??). I might swap the ECM still. Im doing a 3800 II SC swap in my other Fiero really soon . Anyhow, back to the drawing bord for you, eh?

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Hey guys, I am starting to have the same problem. I have been thinking it was the module but that hasn't helped you, has it?

Madman, the pickup coil is just a method of marking where the shaft is, it doesn't add anything. It sends out a pulse everytime one of the little fingers clicks by. It could be the cause if it is weak. I hope that gets it. You guys have tried everything. Personally I think it is the ignition module so I will try a Delco one. Hang it there.

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Dwayne Mohr
84 SC Red
87 GT 5sp Silver
(Formerly FieroSoul)

Well unless it has something to do with the timing.. it wont be the Ign module.. Ive changed mine three times two wells (both new and then just bought AC-Delco mod and pickup coil. Installed both and still have a problem. Needed it though as the pickup coil looked pretty wasted. I'm going to go buy a few feet of vacuum hose and run all new ones over the top of the engine to see if I have any leaks under the intake. I really hate the fact I dont get any codes which means it dosent do it long enough to store one, or I have a bad ecm (100$ so I might go that route next) Car on the other had is LEGAL NOW!! Installed rodneys cat and passed no problem other then the stutter. One thing I have thought about. I installed that 190mph speedo (120mph kit) on maybe a 85mph speedo, but im not sure since I checked and it should of been a 120 (stop pins and flat face) Might this be throwing off the car somehow? Well I'm off to drive my now legal stuttering car around town!! Best of luck!

The gods are unhappy!! as I hit submit there was a big @SS thunder clap, Nasty storm moving in quick! and worse off the car was outside windows down! No rain yet but soon. SO what should I work on now?? Guess I'll go buy hose and try that, but wont test till tomorrow. Ohh well

[This message has been edited by DjDraggin (edited 04-29-2003).]

Sacrafice a rice burner to the gods DJ, maybe that will help. Good luck, I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

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Dwayne Mohr
84 SC Red
87 GT 5sp Silver
(Formerly FieroSoul)

Ok. SO its not a vacuum problem also. Just ran a bunch of new hose around the car eliminating the plastic hose, even pressure tested them with my breath (I know, its all I had, and I brushed me teeth before I did ) I guess I'm going to have to wait till this weekend and have someone else give her a shot. Ohh something else I kinda noticed, my ajar light kicks on around the same time, my rear one and light is clipped, door ones work fine and hood might be the culprit but which one would kick the interior lights on when it would go on. Mine dont come on unless its the doors (this right?) never know it might have something to do with it. L8

well now that there is THREE OF US!!! Im prolly going to have a mechanic friend of mine re-build my distributor. I'm personally thinking about scrapping the whole engine and dropping a 3800 SC series 2 in there!! that will teach the bastardly engine! On a more serious note, dont try the ECM till i do.. I think I'm going to try the ECM if the distributor re-build doesnt work. I'll let you guys know, but DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON AN ECM!!!

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Could be the distributor. I will anxiously await your results. Together we will get it!

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Dwayne Mohr
84 SC Red
87 GT 5sp Silver
(Formerly FieroSoul)

My dist is now next to new I polished everything on it, cleaned all contacts, checked all wires, checked the magnet for major cracks, replaced ign mod, pickup coil with AC-delco, and new cap and rotor. My wires are 8mm taylor racing wires, powerd though a MSB blaster 2 coil and clean ac delco plugs. So I'm guessing this isnt the problem. So back to the drawing board! I'm thinking about treking with the rest of the gateway club guys to twin lakes this weekend I hope to have it fixed before then If not maybe find help up there. L8