Figure this one out…
This intermittent problem that reared it’s ugly head this morning and got progressively worse caused me to have less fun at the show today.
I want to see if anyone would have figured out the problem before the show on Saturday.

I have not modified or left out any facts.
And if you heard Gene tell Fred what the problem was, then you don’t count…

1984 TBI fuel pump running to two regulators, one for carb, one for N2O
350, AFB carb, stock HEI distributor, N2O plate under carb.

Thursday night I come home from work.
Stop at the quick mart to get beer.
Get about 10 blocks away and car starts to stall, it gets worse the more I push on the gas pedal.
It finally dies.
I coast off on to a side street.
Crank it a few times but still doesn’t start.
Call for my lovely assistant to bring me my portable toolboxes, fuel pressure gauge, and timing light.

My first thought was it was a fuel problem.

I take the filter loose from the carb and I get a little spray of gas, but I go ahead and check pressure by jumping the leads on the oil pressure switch and it’s at 2psi, I turn up the regulator and it’s still at 2psi, I turn the regulator up all the way and it’s still at 2 psi.

Dummy me then discovers that I am turning up the regulator for the N2O fuel line and not the one to the carb.

So I try it again only I turn up the correct regulator this time.
and I have 3.5.
I turn up one notch on the pressure regulator, 4.0.
I turn up another notch on the regulator, 4.5. so I leave it there.

I grab the timing light to check for spark and realize that I don’t have any place to connect the positive side clamp that I can reach on a hot engine.

So I crank the car and it starts. We drive the next 2 miles home and everything seems normal.

I write it off as an ignition module getting hot.

Since I have a red car, and a show in two days, I decide to get a red distributor cap and rotor.
I have a used but known good aftermarket module and new coil that I put in to rule out any problems that I may have on the way to the show, 600 miles round trip.

Friday morning I drive to work, 24 miles.
I have a GM ignition module delivered to me at work, to keep as a spare on the trip just incase.
(I love working in the parts dept)
Friday evening I drive home, 24 miles.
Friday night I drive 30 total to go to a friend’s house to get some 2 way radios for the road trip to the show.

All with no problems.

Saturday morning
My co pilot shows up at 5am to wake my lazy @$$ up.
We leave and within 3 miles on the highway it’s losing power.
We trudge along for about 20 miles with intermittent power loss and I decide to pull over and change the module.
Get back on the highway and all seems good for about a mile. Then it starts to loose power again.
We arrive at the truck stop at 6am to meet the other fieros making the trek to st louis.
I tell them what’s up and we decide to take a chance and keep me in the pack.

Having the radios was great, other than a poorly sung camp song from time to time, they are a good idea if you are running in a group.

Over the next 250 or so miles I ran with reduced power 5 or 6 times, no more than 60 seconds at a time, and the car never died, I just had to slow down to 60mph or so. And I can hear a different tone in the exhaust.

I call over the radio to keep eyes open for a parts store.

We see two from the highway, but at that very next exit is where the show is.
The other guys check in and I pull off to play with my filter.

Get to the parts store and buy fuel filter. I’m still thinking it’s fuel starvation.
Disconnect fuel lines… squirt! Don’t worry I had a rag around the hose.
As I pull the filter away it pours out like a toilet being flushed. I blow through it no problems. So it’s not the filter but I put the new one on anyway.

Remember I brought a flat and Phillips screwdriver to change the module just in case but that’s it as far as tools go.

I take off the top of my carburetor to check for a stuck needle but both float bowls have gas and are even. BUT…
There is a pool of water where the weights for the secondaries are.
There was a very hard rain Friday and my air filter is knida exposed right now.
Soak up all the water, put it back together and drive the 2 or 3 blocks to the show with no problems.

Have good time at show, cause I’m thinking I solved my problems by finding the water.

I promise at the next show I go to, I am putting a big freakin sticker on my forehead that has my name on it so people from here will say HI… maybe just the letters “GG”

So me and Michael lost out on the banquet, I didn’t know the other guys from KC were going to stay and by the time we knew, all the dinner tickets were sold.

So we upted to leave instead of waiting around for 3 hours.

Car started by me just reaching in the window and turning the key, idled fine. We packed up and shot for home.

We gambled and instead of driving 3 blocks to the parts store we just got on the highway.

Bad freaking idea.

2 miles to the next exit, 1 1/2 miles back on the service road and 20 minutes later we get to the parts store.

************************************************
we were at the parts store for about one hour.
I borrowed their multimeter, 15mm, 17mm, 19mm, 9/16 wrenches and a small monkey wrench.
I have 12.4 volts on the fuel pump supply side of the oil pressure plug, 11.3 volts on power to the coil.
I bought 2 items, one for $149.89 and one for $1.08
I was finally able to drive home with all the power I normally have.

I will exchange one part under a true warranty condition, return one part under warranty abuse due to my misdiagnosis, and one part I will keep.

*************************************************************

let the guessing begin

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Buddy *there are two "G"s in my name*
1.94/1.50 iron heads +0.030, 0.1popup, geardrive, edelbrock homeowner kit, 5spd jap tranny, N2O
car doesn't crank?
got a broken stud?
car wont start coming soon
KCFOG
ME

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-29-2003).]

hmm, intermittent, mostly at highway speeds. since you appear to have fuel, i'd start with ignition circuits. something is getting hot and losing ground maybe.

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'84 2m4 se, a work in progress http://www.mtsu.edu/~mkr2c/fiero.htm

makes sence to me.

anyone else wanna throw in their 0.02?

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Buddy *there are two "G"s in my name*
1.94/1.50 iron heads +0.030, 0.1popup, geardrive, edelbrock homeowner kit, 5spd jap tranny, N2O
car doesn't crank?
got a broken stud?
car wont start coming soon
KCFOG
ME

Voltage seems a litle low-did ya buy a battery or altenator?

hmm did you replace the disributor? 148 is a expensive part for you americans. and that 1.08 is probably the oil press switch. Am I close? But I am betting that you had to replace the alternator because when it got hot it would stop charging and youre dist would die due to lack of voltage to the coil. Do I win?

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Steve's 85 GT 4 speed 2.8

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 04-27-2003).]

[This message has been edited by red85gt (edited 04-27-2003).]

hi reading your long post interesting... but towards the end you mention 11.3 volts to coil. it seems rather low usually between 12.5 or 13 plus. i know you need a certion voltage to build spark, after all its just a big high votage transformer. i will read later this is interesting. also those connectors to coil with pink ires etc ca fry after a while because of heat
good luck.

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1986 Pontiac Fiero SE, 67k original miles, V6, Auto, AC, PB, PDrlks,Pioneer Radio, Sunroof, Factory Wing and Alloy Whells, 215-14-70, Optional Facory Guages. Remember those who serve our Country!:) A work in progress....

He has it fixed-he is asking us to use the clues he's provided to guess what the solution was. As I stated above: alternator or possibly a high$ gel battery.

Buddy, I LOVE these kinds of threads. You get a big, fat (+) from me for telling your story. It reminds me of my RRR thread from last October. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20030204-2-028310.html
A lot of fun! It was going to a car show too, so I know your pain. And man, doesn't your heart sink when your car starts acting up going to a show?

My clue is in the 17mm & 19mm loaner tools. There are not too many places on the car that have those bolt sizes. You said you borrowed them, BUT you never said you used them... hmmm... Are you being tricky?

All right, my guess on the 2nd item is you bought a .99 coke and with tax it came to 1.08!

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REMEMBER: stoplights synch'd for 35mph are also synch'd for 70mph.
(and for 140mph, now that I think about it.)

[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 04-28-2003).]

maryjane
I forgot to mention I took the voltage readings with the car off. So 12.4 with the key on is acceptable as a perfect battery only has 12.6
And GMs have resistance in the wire supplying voltage to the coil. So 11.3 is within specs.

red85gt
You guessed the $148.00 part right.
After putting in the distributor I started it and got about 3 blocks away before it started acting up again.

I printed out this thread at work and let all the techs read it and they couldn’t figure it out either.

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-28-2003).]

YEah I got one right I am thinking that maybe you had to drop the tank because your pickup was getting plugged. A school mate had the same problem start fine but drive 3 blocks and car would run like junk. Did you replace the sock in the tank? I am pretty sure U can do this in a parking lot if you had to

Gee another one with this problem.. what gives??? Hey buddy before you go dumping a ton of unneeded cash into the car have a read of me and fieromadmans quest to rid our babys of this insane issue.. Its listed under "why does my 87 GT stall while driving" https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/034755.html

I actually showed up late to the show because of this problem. (and thinking the show was on Sunday) I went up there at 2 on sat to see if anyone would be at the hotel that could help me and saw the show going on! Did you see the big Yukon GT (tyre on roof rack) fly in for a few mins and then fly back out on to the highway? I made it back at 4:30, Opps damn car took forever to put back together. But read up on the post and keep in touch on if you figure anything out.. L8

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Who ever said working on Fieros wasn't any fun?? They must not of had a rebody!

red85gt
you are getting warmer…

quote Originally posted by DjDraggin: Gee another one with this problem.. what gives??? Hey buddy before you go dumping a ton of unneeded cash into the car have a read of me and fieromadmans quest to rid our babys of this insane issue.. Its listed under "why does my 87 GT stall while driving" https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/034755.html

I have already solved my problem, I just wanted to see if anyone could have foreseen the future and fixed it before the show. And all you guys are injected where as I am running a carb, so the link wouldn’t have helped. Although I did read it.

quote Originally posted by DjDraggin: I actually showed up late to the show because of this problem. (and thinking the show was on Sunday) I went up there at 2 on sat to see if anyone would be at the hotel that could help me and saw the show going on! Did you see the big Yukon GT (tyre on roof rack) fly in for a few mins and then fly back out on to the highway? I made it back at 4:30, Opps damn car took forever to put back together. But read up on the post and keep in touch on if you figure anything out.. L8

I didn’t see a black / dark blue Yukon, or a guy fighting to unfold a baby stroller, but I did see a MILF with short curly hair.

Say “HI” to a fellow PFFer the next time would ya…

[This message has been edited by buddycraigg (edited 04-29-2003).]

ARGH I am so close I can taste it hmmmm..... The only thing I can think it is is the tank on youre car wasent sealing properly around the fuel pump. My dad is having this problem with his truck. Under 1/2 a tank it runs bad surges and stalls. Over 1/2 a tank it runs fine. SO did you have to replace the fuel pump gasket??? thats my last guess I am tapped

last chance,
i'll tell the rest of the story tonight.

$1.08? aside from the coke it would have to be a small gasket or seal of some kind, maybe a seal for the fp regulator?...Paul

Paul is so close.

and here's a hint.

quote Originally posted by buddycraigg: I was finally able to drive home with all the power I normally have.

key word there being "normally"

wouldnt be that little bit of rubber hose connecting the pump to the fuel line?

Every time I checked I hadd fuel pressure and plenty of fuel in the carb and
the fuel filter was full of gas.

I thought the only thing left was the pick up coil in
the distributor. ($148.00 part.)

I replaced the distributor and still had the problem.

I ran the car in the parking lot with the air filter
off and discovered I was not getting a squirt out the
accelerator jets when I would open the throttle.

I ran the car until it died and quickly unplugged the
oil pressure switch.

I checked for fuel out the jets by quickly opening the
throttle all the way.

The regulator inline for the carburetor had correct
pressure but wasn't allowing enough volume to feed the
carb.

My fuel pump runs off of the oil pressure switch.
When the engine would die the fuel pump would keep
running for 10 or so seconds until my oil pressure
would fade away.
Thus refilling the carb and building up fuel pressure
again.

Since I didn't have tools with me I swapped the fuel
line going to the N2O solenoid over to the carb,
removed the line from the failing regulator and
plugged it with a 1/8 pipe plug ($1.06 part)

AHA so the regulator is the true warranty part you were returning. Dam that was a tricky one to find!

and of course it had to happen on a day of a show.

just figures.

The saga continues…
I put a new regulator in a few days after st louis.

Today it started acting up on the way home from work.

Expecting to know what the problem was I would shut off the engine and coast along on the highway or the shoulder until my oil pressure light would come on, giving my fuel system time to fill back up.

Hit the key and away we went for another half mile or so.

I didn’t get to do much testing tonight because as soon as I got home I had to jump in the beater and run to the monthly club meeting.

By the way we have a new person. Marvin McInnis

So I get back home around 11 and start playing with it.

I take the fuel line loose at the carb and check for flow.
I jump the connector on the oil pressure plug and I tested with the regulator set half way and at maximum. Both times I get about 10 gph

I haven’t solved anything as of yet. I wanted to ask for guesses that I may be overlooking.

Either I have a second bad pressure regulator, or the oil pressure switch is failing and not supplying constant or enough power to run the fuel pump at full speed.

Either way I am carrying the tools need to plug my carb regulator and switch back over to my N2O regulator, and a jumper wire with male spades on it to jump the oil pressure plug the next time it happens.

Which will probably be on my way to work tomorrow.

And guess who suggested replacing the oil press switch huh??? ME lol check power wire with voltmeter when it starts acting up. should have minimun 12volts running.

car starved for gas on the way to work.

installed jumper wire with no change.

limped to work.

while at work switched over to the n2o regulator and drove home without any problems.

So have you changed the fuel reg yet? Maybe you need to buy s diff brand. One you have seems to be too restrictive.

got a holley one on order