I am in the heat of the only major mechanical project of my life. I am installing a 3800 series II SC from a '97 GTP and a 4 speed Muncie from a '84 Fiero into an '87 Fiero that was originally a 2.5L on an automatic. I am having trouble finding a way to make the shifter cables hook up. Original routing was over the top of the four banger. This mounting causes the exhaust crossover and throttle body of the 3800SC to be in the way. Has anyone been here and already came up with a solution, its driving me crazy. Also I am converting to Grand Am style brakes. The AutoZone rotors do not fit the new hubs well (hole's slightly big) which obviously causes a balancing issue. I'm considering making a copper shim to solve this but thought someone with more experience might have a better idea. Also any help with the routing/hookup of the vaccuum lines would be greatly appreciated. I will have some CHEAP stock parts left when I'm done. Seats, dashpod, steering wheel, steel wheels automatic transmission (basket case) and other stuff if anyone's interested. PLEASE cut me some slack I'm inexperienced but not stupid!

Welcome to the forum!
Unfortunately, I won't be much help. You may not like the 84 tranny's ratios (unless it's the 3:32 econo).

I am doing a series I, 4 speed. I am not yet far enough along to figure out your cable problem. I have not seen any pics or diagrams, but have seen statements that 'a new bracket was made', etc.

Someone in the know will come along shortly.

There seems to be a fair range of sizes due to different manufacturers so you may try taking the hub to parts stores and seeing if a snug fit can be found. Just a thought.

Thanks for the reply! Yipee! I'm a virgin no longer! Final drive ratio is 4.10. Although top end isn't going to keep up with Vette's and such. I think the torque's going to be ALRIGHT! I've install and sintered iron clutch and appropriate pressure plate, 3.4" pulley and modified the cradle to bolt on "iron to iron". I'm installing Grand Am brakes (DuH!). I'm completely modifying the dash and interior, I've shortned the shifter and made a knob from a real eight ball. Lots of other stuff too! I haven't had so much fun since the hogs ate my sister, but I sure would like to here it run!

A 4:10 with a 3800 ??!?!?! Holy........I have a 2.8 with a 4:10, and I piss off a lot of the local stock V8 guys around my area, you my friend will make many enimies with that combo.
I do not know the answer to your question, but I can offer some advice. In my area a lot of local speed shops are able to fabricate just about anything you could ever need for a car, with a little research and careful measurements, you may get away with a fabricated cable from a local source in your neck of the woods, this way you can route them anyway you see fit.

[This message has been edited by OH10fiero (edited 05-07-2003).]

Thanks for your input. I think either myself or some professionals I know can handle making up the cables, the problem is getting the shift levers attatched to the cables. It's obvious they need refabricated but I haven't been able to come up with a good functional design. I'm sorry it's hard to explain the issue without visual. As for as the V8 thing, the problem with getting to radical it seems to me is the axles, the transmission, I think will hold up, but I'm concerned about them axles!

OH10fiero. If youv've got a V6 on 4speed Muncie 4.10, you probably have the info I need. Is it possible for you to take a digital photo of your shift levers of your car and E'mail it to me!!!???

I don't have the motor attached yet, but the series I at least has a honking big crossover and TB and intake compared to the normal 2.8.

FieroBUZZ Do you have a 4 speed Muncie that is already on a 2.8? I think the Isuzu and Getrag Muncies have a slightly different shifter lever arrangement. I know the V6 cables route differently. I don't think any V6's got tied to the Muncie 4 speed 4.10 from the factory but I'm not sure. I think I need to mock the other transmissions shifting lever arrangement to solve my problem, but don't have any access to a visual. Can you help???!!!

Hi Understand your problem

i have an 84 4 speed with 86 3800sc

the engines running but i havent road tested yet any way heres what i did;

the two"ears" on the shifter bracket need to cut and rewelded as close to the shift levers as possible additionally i raised the
"ear" for the selevt cable 1 inch. in retrospect probably should have been higher

problem now is the cable ends are forward of the lever mounting points. so a made extension brackets. the clearance at the crossover is tight,however it seems to shift ok (but tight) while parked

the other problem is cable interference at the water outlet. im using a stock one but im going to try a 2.8 outlet. ps: any of you guys doig this conversion,you can get a cheap filler and cap,its integral to a 2000
dodge ram v6 upper rad hose.

hope this helps any other questions let me know

mike

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mike

just a quick note

the better option to the adaptor brackets at
the shift/select levers is to shorten the cables cut and reweld the ends at the shifter im trying my adaptors for now.

either way you still need to modify the trans bracket

or wcf headers

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mike

Mike thanks for the info! I'm having some trouble digesting it at this point, but just need to print your response and go out to the garage and screw with the the shifter mech's to understand what you mean. Will WCF headers actually solve the problem? Don't they crossover the same place? Hell as much as its costing now I might as well throw some more $$$ at it. Uh, how about a loan? Hah!

Well, today I got busy solving my shifter problem. I spaced the bracke approx 1 " from the block. Removed the exhaust insulator from the crossover pipe. and fabricated a bracket for the lever that pulls the shifter shaft in and out of the transmission body. This gave me the clearance neede without changing the angle or hopefully the length fo the cable. I installed the cables on the transmission end an operated them with b\my hands. They work like great! I need to remove the bracket I made and remake a pollished and paintend one (this one was just a rough prototype to see if the idea would work). Thanks for your help! Still need help with the vaccuum lines if anyone has the knowledge and inclination to lend a hand, or, in this case, a mind!

great jack your on your way

you may need to wrap the crossover or fab some kind of heat shield for the throttle body

ive got a vacuum diagram for the 3800sc
scanners busted but i could fax it if no one else posts a diagram

re wcf headers dont know if they clear but they could answer that

if header wrap works i may pull my shield also my select cable touches the pipe ive heat tape wrapped it but it still seems stiff
if yours works thats what ill do

thks for your input

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mike

Mike, I'm planning to build some superhetrodyne type heat shield for the throttle body when I get to that anyway. Hoping to be able to encapsulate it and cool it with external ambient air somehow. In addition I think I'll build a horizontal sheild between the exhaust and the cable. Have about 3/8" to 1/2" of clearance as installed now. My fax # is 217-243-6039. If you want give me your E-Mail and when I get the linkage modification finished to the point I'm not embarassed by it I will E-Mail a digital picture.

Will fax you tomorrow from the office

Need anything else will let me know

My e mail is fieromikey@gosympatico.ca

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mike

Hey! Mike thanks for the facts fax. I'll E-Mail Ya.

Do these help at all? I just took these off my 86 4 speed Muncie, unknown ratio, V6. First one is looking down, 2nd is straight on, 3rd is looking up. I have them all at 1280/960 if you want, I had to scale them down to save some room on my free web space.

Buffalo86GT

Much thanks for the pics shows that the v6 retainers are raised higher than the 4cyl.

sorry jack I may have screwed up,On a previous post I read that you need to move the cable retainers forward.I thought this meant on the bracket.After disconnecting my cables I realized it really meant towards the firewall,this gives lots of clearance on the crossover pipe.Unfortunately I cant get my bracket rewelded until next week to give you the results.If this isnt very clear ill fax you a dwg and explanation on tuesday.

If you need other stuff let me know and i'll include it

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mike

Yes! Thanks for those pics. As they say "worth a thousand words" I've actually already made brackets for mine at this point. Probably would have done this differently with this info..but it works well. Dry shifted through the gears this smorning on the bench while turning the cranckshaft. Wanted to make sure I hadn't inadvertantly reversed forward to back on the shifter ect. Discovered something. Even after all the research I did on my transmission, I think I've got something other than I thought. This I know: I have a 4 speed transmission called and made by Muncie. It came from a '84 Fiero parts car. I thought it was a 4.10. I thought this because I at one point researched the #'s from the original factory tag on the side of the transmission. Cannot remember the data source, but at the time felt it was a good one. I put a screw driver in the vented GA brake caliper I've installed on the left axle. I then turned the crankshaft while monitoring the rotation of the remaining axle. (since it's on the same end as the pulleys). I found the cranshaft rotated slightly more that 1.5 turns for every single rotation of the hub. Keeping in mind I have the left axle locked down, I think this means the final drive ration is slightly over 3/1. I also found that the first three gears are much closer ratio than from 3 to 4. Anybody got any idea what I've really got? Not sure I mind this scenario it just caught me by surprise.

You may have the other 84 tranny, the econo 3:32 final drive. If so, nice job. They are becoming a little rare.

If you end up with specs or pics on your bracket, I would love to get a copy.
fierobuzz@yahoo.ca

Ive got the M19 4.10 4 speed based on the
frt fender data sheet.Checked the trans but couldnt see any markings I could tell you about.Frankly I wish mine was the 3.32
First gear with the 3800sc shou;d last for 2 seconds

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mike

Fierobuzz, I plan to take many digital pictures at once since I have to borrow the camera from work. When I do I'll give you a complete once over of my incredible engineering project! If you need it sooner than later let me know!

Mike, I understand what you mean about 2 secs. I figured all four gears wouldn't last 10 secs. If you mean between shifts. If you mean like expectancy, that's whole nother thing. But you know that 115-120 in 1/4 mile would be bitchin'. Provided everthing else would hold together.