Ok, So first question, just to make sure I'm on the right track. This is a picture of the fuse block for the engine. The wires that have X's on them go to the inside of the car which was cut so I seperated them and tied them off. The wires with the arrows pointing to them are the ones that come from the engine wiring harness and go to the fuse block. Am I on the right track?
Whats the next step? I know I need to wire the 203 and 500 but how? I'm assuming I use the connector from my 2.5 wiring harness that was connected to the 203 right? then just find the matching wires on the 4.9 wiring and wire them into the connector? The 500 I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do with it....am I supposed to use my old 2.5 connector that pluged into the 500 and wire the caddy wiring into that?
Next, can someone tell me what these connectors are for on the engine wiring harness? Are they for the tranny?
Next, What does this plug into?
I already eliminated these two grounds out of the harness but I'm just making sure there not crutial
What does this plug go to? The alt cables are all there and I can't find anything this plugs into...could it be from power steering pump or air pump?
This hose comes from the throttle body. I originally thought it went to a valve cover but now I've discovered that the hole in the valve cover is for a hose that comes from the intake. So where does this one go?
I might as well show-off my cool intake that I'm going to adapt to the fiero.
These are my two lines coming from my fuel vapor canistor. Do I hook them up on the caddy? Does it hook up to this one that comes from the throttle body down by the transmition?
And finally it comes to the throttle body here is this where I hook my fuel vapor hoses to?
How and where does this mount?
Where does this sensor and bracket mount? Does the other one mount on this bracket?
I think this is a vacume hose, it comes from the throttle body, where does it connect to? or where should I connect it to? Or is this the other fuel vapor line?
Here is where that tube connects, then from there it goes to throttle body, there is another one there as well but it doesen't have an extention like this one. Am I missing a hose or should somethign plug to that?
Ok, now just some general Questions. I had a friend wire me a paskey bypass circuit board. How will I know if it does not work or I just haven't connected something right on the engine? Anyway to tell? And speaking of paskey how do I wire it. I have a power, ground and signal wire coming off of it, where do I wire them to? And I was wondering where everyone else has mounted this big fuse block? I know I have asked alot of questions and I just hope that these pictures will help. If you can be of any assistance it would be greatly appreciated!
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06:48 AM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
Noway man, don't be scared. As you can see I am ovestly not. With the hard work I put into it now I will get many many benifits that no carberated engine could have.
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07:14 AM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
If I were you I would strip that wiring harness down to just the wires, with the wiring information in Rockcrawls site www.fieroaddiction.com For example you find MAP sensor terminal A goes to ECM terminal..... and so you connect them and move on to MAP sensor terminal B to ECM terminal.... after the engine is test run and codes are done tape the harness back up and cover it with the plastic tubing. If it is injector feed splice it into the original injector feed, if its a ground ground it to the engine, be sure the engine and body have a good ground. When you are done one wire at a time you will find all the connectors remaining, set them aside just in case.
Hope this helps.
Pete
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07:23 AM
Kento Member
Posts: 4218 From: Beautifull Winston Salem NC Registered: Jun 2003
Noway man, don't be scared. As you can see I am ovestly not. With the hard work I put into it now I will get many many benifits that no carberated engine could have.
I just tired of having computer and sensor issues with my car. When I go with a V-8 I want it to be SIMPLE!!!! Big motor + little car = Simple Fast
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08:32 AM
Fieroking Member
Posts: 2148 From: Coeur D Alene Idaho USA Registered: Jun 2002
Check the thread on the general chat titled "Help me install my 4.9" by the Fieroking you might find some answers there will try to answer more if you need it
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06:01 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
IMO the best rewiring technique is to strip the tape from all wires on the Caddy Harness. Get a chart ( from the manual) showing where each wire goes to the ECM and to what connector pin. Indentfy and label each wire then cut them off the Caddy ECM connectors. Next buy two new ECM connectors that will fit the Cadillac ECM. Reroute the harness and begin tape wrapping where possible then pass all wires through the bulkhead to where the ECM is located. Now one by one attach each wire to the appropriate pin on the new ECM connectors ( double check this as you go) until all wires are routed and accounted for. I'm not a big fan of mating two different harnesses but I guess that it can be done this way as well. IMO starting from scratch is the most reliable way to rewire. This technique can be used with almost any MPFI engine swap. Figure about six to eight hours work for the rewiring job and be sure to visit Rockcrawls website for some great tips.
You are creating a lot more work if you cut the connectors off...anyways...
I know you are probably confused when looking at the wire bundle and wondering where to start - actually I was too at first, but have thought about it and this is what I came up with.
1) if not all done yet, remove all the tape and black cover from all the wires (no exceptions) - use twist ties (or tie wraps) around each bundle to kind of keep them together (only use 1 or 2 - and don't tie them too tight).
2) ok, now you start at the end that was cut when it was removed from the car. Pick a wire and pull it out of the harness to where it goes:
- if it goes to a fuse box, cut the wire (but leave about 3 inches minimum sticking out of the fuse box so a) it can be repaired if needed or b) easy to remove the connector from the fuse box) - remove the fuse that the wire goes to from the fuse box. - if it goes to the ECM connector, cut it as above - make sure you leave no less than 4 inches. - if it goes to a sensor or engine connector, just coil and tie it up near the sensor/etc. You will need to identify this sensor/connector.
3) once you have gone through that harness you will then need to identify the wires that have been cut at the ECM plug. Easy if you have a copy of the pin outs of the Caddy connector. I know the factory service manual will have this, the Haynes may, but I doubt it. Get a roll of masking tape and wrap a small piece around each wire and mark on tape what the wire is for.
4) you now need to do the same with the Fiero harness (as above) that are inside the car - DO NOT CUT any of these wires. You will need to remove the black plastic console section so you have good access to the harness and diagnostic plug.
5) identify any remaining wires that have not been cut at the fuse box.
...that should keep you busy till I can stop by and help you out some more.
Tim
[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 07-04-2003).]
Ok, first of all stop wasteing my time with carb stuff. Did I ask what system I should use? NO. So don't reply if your not even going to help me. Second of all to those that reply'd with usefull information I thank you. Today Mick stoped by and got a start on this wiring. Here are some basic questions that any 4.9er should be able to answer if they did there own wiring harness. My first picture shows the fuse block. That is no longer there because Mick discovered that barely any wires go to the block. So my question is is that block even needed? Can anyone tell me what those fuses are for(the big ones not the small ones). I'm also looking for pin outs and wiring diagrams for 94 deville as I can't find any hanes or chilton manuals yet. If anyone has these diagrams or pictures I would really appreciate it if you could post them or direct me to them. And if anyone has any pictures of the completed wiring harness once its done that would be great to. Thx guys!
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10:40 PM
crzyone Member
Posts: 3571 From: Alberta, Canada Registered: Dec 2000
You use the existing fiero fuse block because you use all the existing battery feeds that went the to stock engine. The big fuses are wired directly from the battery and often then divide into many other circuits that are again fused individually. All the wire diagrams are at http://www.fieroaddiction.com/caddy49d.html
Most information is available on Jon's site. The harness when done should look much like it did in the caddy.
Hey cry, look below your post, thats usefull information, look at my first picture...does it look like I'm in the mood to joke? I'm trying to get an engine in here man. I'll chill out when I'm done. PBJ, that does help except what do you mean it will look as it did when it was in the caddy? It will be routed the same way? I'll just throw in another quick question here, I'm buying a angle grinder tomorrow to cut my tranny so my starter fits in but I was curious if I could get that mini starter from a vehicle in a scrap yard? What cars came with the GM 2.8 FWD CSI OLDS 142 tooth mini starter?
On mine, this isn't connected to anything. It actually had a plastic cap that snapped on over the connector. It was then doubled over the wire and wrapped up with tape.
The valve at the end where you're holding it is a 1-way check valve. From the size of the hose and because of the valve, I'd say it's the vacuum line that goes to the vacuum assist brake booster.
There's a metal bracket this valve mounts to. This bracket in turn mounts to the valve cover. You've got your valve covers swapped, so the holes for the bracket aren't there though.
Ditto for the map sensor. This mounts on the valve cover right behind (towards the bell housing) the valve in the previous photo.
I'm not sure on the other vacuum lines. I think the two plastic ones that run together may be for the evap canister, but I don't know for sure. I'm just figuring these out now myself.
--Dan
[This message has been edited by houlster (edited 07-06-2003).]
Look in parts that may help with your starter question. ------------------ 85 GT 4spd 2.8 1 yr blk 86 SE 4spd 2.8 2 yr blk 86 GT Auto 2.8 new to me. 87 SE 5spd Future 4.9 6yr
[This message has been edited by rroberts (edited 07-06-2003).]
houlster thank you so much! you are totally right about that hose that goes to the brake booster. So do you think I can just disconnect it at the throttle body or should I plug up the end or what do you think I should do about it? Thx so much again. And thx rroberts, I have been there, its actually where I got 80% of my information.
houlster thank you so much! you are totally right about that hose that goes to the brake booster. So do you think I can just disconnect it at the throttle body or should I plug up the end or what do you think I should do about it?
I don't know much about Fieros. Do you not have vacuum assist boosters for brakes? If it's not needed, then yeah, just pull the hose off and cap the steel nipple coming off the throttle body so you don't have a big leak.
Glad to see you aren't afraid of a few wires either.
Your first post: 2nd pic: tranny connectors 3rd pic: no idea, (i didn't use) 4th pic: same as above 5th pic: distribuitor cap connectors (Big pink to +)
Your 2nd post: 1st pic: green connector, if it has a thin brown wire, does not connect to anything. but keep it. you may need it to solve driveability issues later on in the future 2nd pic: brake booster vac line, connect to existing Fiero line on firewall that goes to the front mounted brake booster. 3rd pic:The only two things you'll use out of that, are the snorkle and that small oval piece that is attached to it the rest is trash. E-mail me and i'll be glad to try to explain to you how i hooked up to the Fiero v-6 air box. 4th pic: You'll need a selenoid controlled vac canister, i'm using the donor's. On that vac canister selenoid controlled one) the big vac line goes to the line you are pointing to, the little line goes to the TB. the two wires go to the caddy ecm. 5th pic: Stainless steel vacuum line, one end to the TB, the other end to the transmission modulator.
Your 3rd post: 3rd pic: EGR control selenoid, mounted on the intake as it came from factory. lower vac line to TB, upper vac line to EGR valve two wires to caddy ecm. 4th pic: MAP sensor, mounted to the now, rear valve cover (you swapped the valve covers already, right?) no need to drill holes on the cover. they are already there. 5th pic: Vac lines by the trans side of motor (2 of them) I believe they were used in the caddy to control vacuum operated accessories , such as E-brake release etc, etc. Not needed.
Passkey circuit. Your circuit board should have three wires, they go to: switched ignition 12V source, Negative(ground), and the third wire goes to the ECM.
Good luck!
Ed
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09:58 AM
PBJ Member
Posts: 4167 From: London, On., Canada Registered: Jan 2001
I know of no GM stock vehicle that uses the mini stater. I though the new starters were mini so I tried a 2000 sunfire but it would not contact the flywheel.
What I ment by the harness looking like the caddy I ment, just run them together the best you can, tape them around when done and cover them in the plastic and it looks stock. This is how I ran my harness, it is just a helpfull suggestion, it is not the only way of doing it.
A Big Thumbs Up to Ed, his imput sounds really helpful. WTG Gary. And to all others also, looks like alot of good info here for people doing this swap!
[This message has been edited by GKDINC (edited 07-06-2003).]
Were so close!!! Yes, a big shout out to everyone who reply'd. Today was a huge day. Probably got in a solid 12 hours of work. What we did today was, (Tim did all the wiring, aka mickymouse) He sorted threw the huge mess of wires and came out with a nice clean wiring harness...I still have a few questions about where a few wires go but thats about it. Got my idler pully on and made a tensioner out of the alt bracket. We got the engine mounted on the cradle and attatched to the transmition. Everything is ready to go in but I still need to mount the starter(I have to get it this morning) then all thats left is to put her in the car and hook everything back up and turn the key...so hopefully within a few days here she'll be runnin but forsure by the weekend. I couldn't borrow a camera so unf ortuently no more progress pics but I will get the camera to take pics of the engine in the car. So ya within a few days she shoudl be done and I'll post pics...thx again guys!
How goes the swap. I did reply to your questions but I was trying to get my 4.9 running for a show this weekend so I had to be brief. We got the final driveability issue worked out last night 7-9-03. Please keep you thread going so that we can help you with any issues.
Well I work really long hours so its hard to make any progress during the week. But she will be done this weekend. I'll try to get a camera. I'll post here none the less. I do need a bit of help yet with a few more wires...I have some pictures but I have to scan them in so I will be doing that tomorrow morning...hopefully some of you can help...thx!
Alright guys, today is the day, she will be in the car and all hooked up by this afternoon. What I need to know is a few things about the wiring. The pictures below are pinnouts and mick and me need to know about a couple wires. In general, what are these wires for? Do I need to use them(some I ovestly do)? What are they wired to? How do I wire it?
Ok so in this picture I need to know the pulse speed output #1 and #2 are? Is that speedometer? Not sure why ignition is circled but could someone elaberate. What is UART Serial data?? And is the check engine signal the light or something else? And for the bottom picture I was wondering what 423 is? EST?
Second picture, this is what mick had wrote on the original paper so I'm not sure exactly what he wanted to know(was very tired!) but he had fuel pump relay highlighted and fixed spark and fuel p0ump feedback so if someone could tell me what all thos are for, and where I should wire them. One more question is about the fans, cadilac had two rad fans and there's to relays...which one should I use? Thx everyone!
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07:39 AM
rockcrawl Member
Posts: 2528 From: Lehigh Valley, PA Registered: Jul 2000
Rockcrawl >> thanks for the info, a few other questions I have are:
C203: - VSS feed (H) - ignore?
Deville: - oil pressure switch connects to? Many wires (4, I think) on the Deville switch and they don't seem to be listed in the diagrams that are on your page. - there is some sort of sensor located, when viewing engine from the front (water pump), left rear on the side of the block. This is and connects??
Thanks for all the help Tim
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01:13 PM
rockcrawl Member
Posts: 2528 From: Lehigh Valley, PA Registered: Jul 2000
C203 pin H can be left disconnected. I remove any unused wires from their connectors so I don't have unterminated wires hanging out all over the place.
Use a Fiero oil pressure sender. If you have a 91-92 Caddilac use a '87 Fiero sender. If you have a 93 or newer Cadillac use an '88 sender. The changeover point may vary but 92/93 seems to be it. You might consider using an '88 sender even with the early harness and just change the connector on the harness. The '88 sender is cheaper, smaller, and more reliable. The harness will have a tan wire that goes to C203 pin E, a pink/black wire that goes to C203 pin B, a gray or tan/white wire that goes to C203 pin L, along with the normally open FP relay contact and the previously mentioned ECM C13. The late model harnesses will also have a black wire (ground) that is not used with a Fiero sender, but can be connected to ground anyway.
The sensor in the rear cylinder head is a temp switch. The black wire goes to ground. The green wire goes to C500 pin D3. It will turn on the hot light at some unknown temperature.
Rockcrawl - thanks for the big time help, unfortunaly there are now a few more questions, I don't have the sheet in front of me right now as I left it with Lance and he has yet to post the questions.
First: the car is a 84 with the 4 cylinder originally so, the pinouts on the C203 are not even close:
-Looks like I will have to add an extra connection for the fuel injectors (there is only one - or can they both be hook to the same location?). -on the C203 there is an output call 'crank output' - is this the tach? If so, then what about the C500 connect tach input - maybe I have the wrong pinout for the 84 C500 connector (does anyone have the correct pinouts for a 84)? -Caddy ECM - the BATTERY connections (B1, etc) - these are connected to the battery or to ignition? (not all that sure why they would be connected to the battery all the time, but won't argue if they are).
Looks like I will have to add in a 12 volt solenoid as well to handle all the ign wires. Lance, you wouldn't want to bring the car over to my place for a week so that I can pull wires?
Tim
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01:01 PM
BV MotorSports Member
Posts: 4821 From: Oak Hill, WV Registered: May 2001
I dont remember the exact info on this but I do remember reading that a 89 or 90 4.5L (deville maybe?) used a smaller starter. I have not looked into this but I am SURE I read about it. I too wasnt to thrilled about cutting my bellhousing but then decided to go with a 4T60e. I hope this helps.
Steven
------------------ '02 Subaru WRX 14.61@91.87mph bone stock '87 Fiero GT 4.9/4T60e, ZEX nitrous 65hp shot, 88 cradle w/ coil overs, Poly everything, Upgraded sway bars, 16X7 M11's, 11.25 "Zettner" front brakes, Complete MSD ignition w/ 6AL box, Custom 3" SLP exhaust, Grand Sport Corvette paint, Carbon fiber interior trim, '98 T/A CD w/ ETR, Reverse Indiglo guages, Pillar mounted AutoMeter O2, Hella H4 conversion and maybe someday it will be done!
Always have engines, fiero parts and accessories for sale. Custom engine swaps and chassis modifications are available.
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07:15 PM
rockcrawl Member
Posts: 2528 From: Lehigh Valley, PA Registered: Jul 2000
Ok guys, here's a couple pictures to keep you goin. We got her. These pictures were taken right as we got it in so there not very acurate. As of these pictures we probably worked on her for another 5 hours. Everything is connected. We are now stuck on the wiring and I will be posting questions very quickly, but if anyone has experience wiring the cadilac engine to the 84 wiring harness I would really appreciate it if I could ask you a couple questions...more specific questions will be coming soon...
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12:39 AM
SplineZ Member
Posts: 952 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Registered: Nov 2002
Ok guys, planning on firing it up today...just need to finish this wiring...I need a couple questions answered so here goes.
1. Does the grey wire on the oil pressure switch go to fuel pump relay??? If so what wire does it attatch to on the relay?
2. Where does the ALDL E wire (serial data) go to?
3. And I'm wiring this to my 84 interior wiring harness and was curious if I could run both banks of injectors threw the 1 power wire on the c203 plug? Or do I have to run another set of wires to my fuse block and add a 10 fuse?
