The new ball joints that I have do not have castle nuts or cotter pins. Now I admit to not having done ball joints in many years, but the old ones had cotter pins and castle nuts.
Is this proper and correct that the new ones don't have these?
I would think if the nut has some sort of locking device built in (some have nylon, some have self-locking threads), you should be ok under normal driving.
But you're not wrong to question it (I would). Most ball joints and tie-rod ends do have the typical castle nut and cotter pin. Never realized a replacement would be any different. Learn something new every day!
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03:42 AM
Lambykin Member
Posts: 619 From: Burlington, Ontario, Canada Registered: May 2003
Banner, if I were you I would take the time and find some good Moog brand ball joints. I found mine at CarQuest. You will understand why as soon as you see them.
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09:17 AM
Whuffo Member
Posts: 3000 From: San Jose, CA Registered: Jul 2003
Banner, if I were you I would take the time and find some good Moog brand ball joints. I found mine at CarQuest. You will understand why as soon as you see them.
Moog is also using nylock nuts on their ball joints now...
Just drill a hole in the shaft that sticks past the nut and install a pin. If the nut backs off far enough to actually shear the pin then the pin will slow it down and by that time you've either (A) checked them of (B) heard or felt the loosness and fixed it.
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03:39 PM
ditch Member
Posts: 3780 From: Brookston, IN Registered: Mar 2003
I don't think I'd ever be comfortable driving the thing if it didn't have cotter pins on the ball joints....even if the nuts are supposed to be "self locking".
Considering what could happen if they came apart while you're driving, I'm sure the "self locking" nuts are proven to stay on, but cotter pins are so much more of a sure thing....they ease my mind more
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04:32 PM
Doug Chase Member
Posts: 1487 From: Seattle area, Washington State, USA Registered: Sep 2001
I've installed a few different brands of lower ball joints on my '85 trying to get a good one. Both brands that used the nylock nut were loose straight out of the box so I returned them.
I was able to come up with some of the old style that had the castle nut and cotter key and these were good. I think the good ones I found were Moog so it's unfortunate that Whuffo says that Moogs are using the nylock nuts now.
I suspect there are only one or two companies that actually manufacture Fiero ball joints and they're boxed and sold under a few different names.
It will be most unfortunate if the only ball joints available for a Fiero are crappy ones that have play when they're brand new.
They're upper and lowers, and only the lowers have the nylock nuts, the uppers have normalk looking nuts.
Not going to take them back as I bought them over a month ago (Just finally found the time to do the job). Though the idea of drilling them and putting a cotter pin thru anyways sounds good. Just might do that.
And if they come off, well Kragens will get a nice lawsuit.
Now I just have to find a place out here in Sacramento that can press the lower ball joints in...
I don't see why you are all worried about a Nylock nut backing off... Between the Nylon lock ring and propper torque I can't imagine them backing off in any normal street use.
Nylock nuts have been used for at least a couple decades on all sorts of things. They work Very well.
Even if you have something that might back them off, just saftey wire or pin the things. It's not that hard. (Some race classes may require this...)
As noted... these probably still use some common thread. If you really want castle nuts you can probably buy them and drill a hole for them.
You could also locktite the things if you are really that worried about them. A tube of locktite only costs a couple dollars.
Castle nuts have a couple problems. You often have to over or under torque them a bit to line up the hole. And rust....
Nylock has a big advantage... The nylon lock seals out allot of trash. I've lost count of how many corroded castle nuts I've fought with. Good ridance to them. Nylock can still corrode but it doesn't invite it like caslte nuts always have.
------------------ No good ever came from dark and spooky. Norville "Shaggy" RogersThe Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)
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08:32 PM
Hank is Here Member
Posts: 4450 From: Hershey, Pa Registered: Sep 2000
the only thing I worry about with the nylon nuts is that tha told ball joints spun with whte castle nut when pulling them off. So when the new ball joints with the nylon nuts need replaced it will be a b!tch to get the nut off
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09:37 PM
Sep 13th, 2003
Will Member
Posts: 14244 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
I don't see why you are all worried about a Nylock nut backing off... Between the Nylon lock ring and propper torque I can't imagine them backing off in any normal street use.
Personally that's NOT what I'm worried about.
What annoys me is that it takes 10 seconds to run a castle nut all the way down and torque it, while it takes 10 minutes to run a lock nut all the way down and torque it.
Words can't describe how much of a F!@#$ING PAIN IN THE @$$ it is to use a lock nut in this application. The current fad among manufacturers is to use a steel lock nut on the upper ball joint. They conveniently provide you with 1/4" flats on the end of the shank to hold it while you tighten the nut, BUT a) you can only turn 1/2 flat at a time, and b) it takes sooooo much torque to turn that F!@#$ING lock nut that you WILL snap the jaws off of the 1/4" wrench that you use to hold the shank. F@#$%ING BRILLIANT.
[rant] I'd like to find the guy who came up with this idea so that I can shoot him between the eyes. :damon :mad He is among one of the few individuals on earth who truly deserves to die, and for pure stupidity to boot. At the very least he ought to be castrated and forced to work at a burger joint for the rest of his life. He's already shown himself to be wholely unsuited for any task involving independent thought, and he absolutely must NOT be allowed to reproduce! amon :mad [/rant]
Drilling a hole for a cotter pin is modifying a wear item, and as such is morally reprehensible.
Another thing is that the shanks on the lock nut ball joints are longer to accomodate the flats to hold them... so if you have them installed in upper and lower locations, Rodney Dickman's ball joint press won't fit between them. :mad
------------------ '87 Fiero GT: Northstar, Getrag, TGP wheels, rear sway bar, rod end links, bushings, etc.
'90 Pontiac 6000 SE AWD: Leaking ABS unit fixed, load levelling rear suspension fixed, still slow
To install the things... try putting any standard nut on and torque that. Then install the locker. Once the taper seats it can't turn. It may be a good way to work around holding the shank.
I don't have an answer for any pressing out issue they may cause. Most cars only get the joints changed once in a life time if that.
amon :mad
