Archie, Sure have been enjoying this thread! Even after experiencing it first hand, twice, I never get enough of this stuff. Your doing a great job. About the larger throttle body, I think California Kid is right on, 58mm is going to be a little too big for that cam and heads. With the larger runners you will be loosing a little on the bottom end, and that big of a throttle body will make it less responsive. Providing he has stayed with the stock cam and heads. Had to work some of the bugs out of mine and I think I am just about there. Let us know how it works out.
Bob
IP: Logged
04:23 AM
twodogjohnny Member
Posts: 163 From: reston, va, usa Registered: Oct 2002
...Some people say I charge too much, but they aren't there, this kind of stuff is what I deal with everyday & it gets to be old after a while.
Archie
Thought that I would add something to this.. I beleive that what ever a shop charges for labor is warranted and the peanut gallery has no right to ever question that amount. But the price of hard parts (a kit) is decided by the marketplace, or the ablity of a person to make up his own adapters and mounts.
IP: Logged
12:39 PM
Gridlock Member
Posts: 2874 From: New Westminster, BC Canada Registered: Apr 2002
...Some people say I charge too much, but they aren't there, this kind of stuff is what I deal with everyday & it gets to be old after a while.
Archie
Thought that I would add something to this.. I beleive that what ever a shop charges for labor is warranted and the peanut gallery has no right to ever question that amount. But the price of hard parts (a kit) is decided by the marketplace, or the ablity of a person to make up his own adapters and mounts.
[/QUOTE]
Not completely true. Archie can charge whatever he wants. It gets into the elasticity of demand. It is up to the market as a whole as to what they are willing to pay. If he charges too much, he will breed a lot of competition offering to do the same thing for a more reasonable price. That in turn will drive prices down.
Just remember, from an economics point of view, you don't always make more money by lowering the price. It gets into marketplace equilibrium.
As a consumer, you always have the choice to walk away.
IP: Logged
02:07 PM
sanderson Member
Posts: 2203 From: corpus christi, texas, usa Registered: Sep 2001
Every time I think..."maybe I'll be normal, maybe I'll just get a Camaro like everyone else... " I just can't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must.....have.....V8 Fiero!!!!!!!!!! Archie, you will be recieving an order soon!!!!!!!!!
------------------ ---"Didn't those catch fire?"--- ---"Why didn't you get an MR2?"--- ---"The engine is WHERE?"--- ---Liking Fiero's is a lonely business---
IP: Logged
12:13 AM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Archie, I'm looking at doing a zz4 build sometime soon (8-15mos.)and have a few ?'s if you would.
I take it you are using the zz4 stock cam - if so then I assume it produces enough vacuum to run with the tpi? A fellow worker thought the zz4 stock cam would not. Also, how much purposed gain in hp/tq does the tpi add?
Are you using all hard mounts for the assembly - from the pictures it looks like at least two are. What is the hinged mount's function?
How do you guys go about painting the engine bay? Do you remove everything and then paint? I ask as it looks very nice and only the walls are painted - nothing is painted that shouldn't be.
Finally, could you include some exhaust pics on how you did this particular build?
Thanks and Awesome work!
Welcome to the Forum Parde_GT. I'm very happy that you decided to use your 1st post to ask some good questions about the SBC swaps.
The ZZ4 does produce enough vacuum to run the TPI just fine. I've done about 15 TPI ZZ engines into Fieros and they do fine. I will try to remember to post the actual vacuum readings on this car when we button it all up. I'm sure there is a Torque gain with TPI but I've never seen any documented GM numbers.
Yes, they are all hard mounts (the hinged looking one is a hard mount). I've been using hard mounts on almost all my inhouse built cars for about 7 years without any problems. There are several "experts" here who will argue solid mounts are no good yadda, yadda, yadda. No matter what you tell them, you can't convince them otherwise. So I just silently put the solid mounts on and let them do all the talking.
Yes we remove everything in the engine compartment and clean and paint. We use aluminized insulation glued to the front firewall. This exhaust system is pretty typical of the exhaust that we to customers in the kits. The car is on the lift, so it will take several pics to show the exhaust.
Archie Looking toward the rear of the car....
Looking straight up at the front exhaust, the front of the car is to the top of this picture....(that's one of our waterpipes running right to left)
Straight up view of the rear side....
The rest of the exhaust....
Hope this helps
Archie
IP: Logged
08:08 AM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Alrighty ... now how about an update on how Archie himself is doing ...
Tina
Not bad, yesterday was about the 1st pain free day since April.
Gonna be about 3 more weeks before I can get into the specialist that I want to see. Current meds only last 'til next Wednesday, so my regular GM is going to have to keep me going 'til then.
I used to think that my soreness and swelling was from overwork and being bashed around on Go-Karts but now I know better.
My god that car will be awesome!! Any idea on what that beast will be doing in the quater mile?? a 2800Lb with a big ass powerfull engine like that will HAUL ASS
IP: Logged
12:43 PM
fiero go fast Member
Posts: 1728 From: Royersford, PA Registered: Apr 2002
Well, since there's so little room for exhaust on a V8, the Pace Setter tips give a bit more sound control. With just cats, or glasspacks, and no resonators, it's gonna be LOUD! Heck, it's not gonna be quiet even with the Pace Setter tips.
Now, if you could make OEM looking megaphone tips, with resonators built in, that would be slick.
Good link, MinnGreen. That webpage hasn't been updated in a while, so I don't know if the prices are current. I also wonder if that includes the cleanup and painting, etc., of the engine compartment, or if "cosmetics" like that would cost extra?
Archie - lookin' good... wondering how well it drives now
Also, related-but-not... what muffler do you use when you remove the trunk for a "quiet" install?
well, maybe archie can chime in here, but to me, they look like Car Chemistry Tube mufflers. Rob, you know what they are, you just dont recognize them. I remember a post a long time ago where Joe Torma installed Car Chemistry Collector Inserts into his car. The CC tube mufflers are the same thing, but have the inserts installed. You can find them in summit now. You seem to know every post ever made, so I hope you know what I'm talking about and can find it. It was a discussion about your exhaust setup I believe. Hope that helps.
well, maybe archie can chime in here, but to me, they look like Car Chemistry Tube mufflers. Rob, you know what they are, you just dont recognize them. I remember a post a long time ago where Joe Torma installed Car Chemistry Collector Inserts into his car. The CC tube mufflers are the same thing, but have the inserts installed. You can find them in summit now. You seem to know every post ever made, so I hope you know what I'm talking about and can find it. It was a discussion about your exhaust setup I believe. Hope that helps.
I'm actually wondering about some of the other installations he's done (there was one listed on Archie's website that mentioned the owner wanting the exhaust to be as quiet if not quieter than stock).
I noticed that this car appears to retain all of it's trunk, whereas cars like Kaz's and the Stinger lose the bottom section for a more-complex exhaust. What's the difference? The use of Cat's or possibly the use of a larger muffler? - just curious
As a different example yet, I know that 80's Boy (Brian) used a larger flowmaster muffler positioned in the area below the cut-off trunk:
[This message has been edited by MinnGreenGT (edited 06-27-2003).]
IP: Logged
03:49 PM
GTFiero1 Member
Posts: 6508 From: Camden County NJ Registered: Sep 2001
could also use Spiral flow mufflers or glasspacks. a friend of mine has spiral flows and his 82 361 supercharged Camaro Z28 and it sounds awsome! Another friend has a 75 Camaro with a built 355 with glasspacks that sounds even meaner
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed
IP: Logged
04:00 PM
Jun 28th, 2003
FieroLT1 Member
Posts: 320 From: MilwauKee, Wisconsin, USA Registered: Nov 2000
I have looked into them as a possible solution for my car. I am running Dual Dynomax Dynaflow cats right into 3" PaceSetter's resonator tips. It sounds good. Nice strong rumble, but I want to quiet it down a little. I thought about getting the three disk CC inserts that are supposed to muffle the sound quite a bit. But I never found anyone with first hand experience as to say how good they are. http://www.carchemistry.com/ccinserts.html
Maybe I get a set and see how it goes.
------------------ Winston Ojeda 88 Fiero Formula LT1 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA http://www.FieroLT1.com Home of the Fiero LT1
IP: Logged
11:20 PM
Jun 29th, 2003
G-Nasty Member
Posts: 2099 From: woodlands,TX,USA Registered: Jan 2001
Well, It's the weekend and I've once again fallen behind on documenting this swap.
As for the car, it's gone home already. The customer came here on Friday and spent most of the day doing the test driving for us.
So that car was gone Friday and we've already (on Saturday) started the next V-8 swap to an '88 GT, we will also be chopping the top on that car. It's a 383 stroker engine with 470+ HP & Torque & will be using the Street & Performance Super-Ram injection system.
But getting back to this car. My hands have been quite sore lately and I haven't felt much like typing. Teyt are not a lot better today but I do need to finish this up for everyone.
While we were underneath the car we installed the cooling pipes and hoses. We also hooked up the wires on everything.
Then we returned to the top of the engine and did final assy. work.
We mounted the ECM in the trunk and routed the S&P wire harness to it.
more to come.......
IP: Logged
08:41 PM
PFF
System Bot
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Time to test run the engine and start sorting it out.
Gotta jack up the back end of the car and fill the cooling system as pper the video instructions.
Hook up the scanner and see what we have...
Watching water temp, oil pressure & everything else...... no need to rush here.... getting it right is most important.
This one wouldn't start initially. Had spark to the plugs, Noid light showed that the injectors were firing. Fuel pressure gage showed that it would pump up to required pressure just fine but wouldn't hold the pressure. We had installed a GN fuel pump when we were under the car. Took out the tank and checked our work, fixed the error and put it back together.
Back to testing again.....
After testing flogging and testing some more it's ready to leave for home.......
IP: Logged
09:04 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
So that car was gone Friday and we've already (on Saturday) started the next V-8 swap to an '88 GT, we will also be chopping the top on that car. It's a 383 stroker engine with 470+ HP & Torque & will be using the Street & Performance Super-Ram injection system.
your going to give us a couple pictures of that beast when its done, right?
------------------ --Adam-- 1987 Blue GT 5-speed IM AOL: FieroGT5speed
IP: Logged
09:48 PM
JEDI Member
Posts: 1003 From: Sunrise, Florida Registered: May 2002
The owner of this subject car has installed a set of our Rocker panels & he also has joined PFF. Maybe we can get him to post a few pics of the revised look.
His PFF name is YellowRooster
Archie
IP: Logged
12:26 AM
$Rich$ Member
Posts: 14575 From: Sioux Falls SD Registered: Dec 2002
" I just can't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Must.....have.....V8 Fiero!!!!!!!!!! Archie, you will be recieving an order soon!!!!!!!!! 
